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A contrarian take on working long hours

allisonpickens.substack.com

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Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#111

Post by whoknew1122 »

paxys wrote: post #18

I went in prepared to read the "contrarian" take that working long hours can actually be good, but it is just stating the obvious. Working for over a decade in silicon valley, I have yet to come across a company or group where the majority opinion has been that people must work more than 8 hours a day to succeed. I'm not sure if there ever was a time when overworking was a norm in the industry, but it definitely has…

Wait, what Amazon org is doing 4 day work weeks? Not that I have a particularly rough schedule, but it could always get nicer...

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#112

Post by applgo443 »

A meta rant - There's a lot of cancel culture at play around working hard.

I don't understand why people are trying to guilt/shame others into working less. And yet, at the same time, watch documentaries about successful people (Kanye, Michael Jordan) talking about how hard they used to work and celebrate it.

In order for you to be on the top of your field, you need to put in hours and hours of work. You'd have to sacrifice the so called 'life' part of the equation. If you don't want to do that - fine! We just don't share the same values and priorities. Just like how I shouldn't shame you for not working hard, you shouldn't shame me for working hard.

If I start a company, it's totally okay for me to only get employees who share this view. I'd boast about how hard I work and how much we accomplished. I'd let my employees do that. And I'd compensate them accordingly. If you think that's toxic, so be it. I feel the real shame is not realizing your full potential and falling short of your dreams.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#113

Post by linspace »

applgo443 wrote: post #112

A meta rant - There's a lot of cancel culture at play around working hard. I don't understand why people are trying to guilt/shame others into working less. And yet, at the same time, watch documentaries about successful people (Kanye, Michael Jordan) talking about how hard they used to work and celebrate it. In order for you to be on the top of your field, you need to put in hours and hours of work. You'd have to sa…

A lot of people are forced to follow other people dreams or worse, ambitions.

You are right about dedication. If I look back it's insane the amount of time I have spent improving my skills, learning new things. I don't do it for the money although sometimes it pays good.

I respect people working hard to launch a company but I cannot respect the posturing or the backstabbing dressed as professionalism.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#114

Post by Tsarbomb »

closeparen wrote: post #110
paxys wrote: post #18

I went in prepared to read the "contrarian" take that working long hours can actually be good, but it is just stating the obvious. Working for over a decade in silicon valley, I have yet to come across a company or group where the majority opinion has been that people must work more than 8 hours a day to succeed. I'm not sure if there ever was a time when overworking was a norm in the industry, but it definitely has…

The pattern is very simple: status update and collaboration meetings grow to consume the official workday. Perhaps not 100% cover, but with few and short enough gaps that you can't really work in them. To the extent that your survival or advancement at the company depends on actually doing some work (this is not guaranteed!) you need to do it on your own time.

Yea this comes to the poor alignment point.

I recently left a company where I led a team in building a high quality and very complex product but the job felt super easy.

Now at my new gig I'm managing a new team where the product is garbage and the team is very junior. Neither of these are the cause of my overwhelming workload as the ultimate product is very low complexity. It is instead the horrible alignment of various personalities that results in an inconceivable amount of meetings and daily shifting priorities.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#115

Post by cbushko »

This article resonated with me as I have worked in a toxic startup environment that required 70+ hour work weeks. That company checked every box in the 2nd list:

  - The market is not large enough right now. It was a huge market with huge incumbents with deep pockets
  - The product is bad. A poorly designed product written by junior engineers
  - Poor positioning. Fighting the big companies with no real value add is not a good strategy
  - High competition. See above.
  - Not talented team members. A rotating door of employees that leave in frustration.
  - Poor alignment. Constant down time and everything is always on fire (hence 70+ hour work weeks).
  - Poor founder. Definitely.
I still "work long hours" but not for the company. I enjoy technology and learning new things. I put in my regular hours for the companies I work for and my hobby is playing with other technology. I get to learn new things and my employers benefit. As an example, I learned kubernetes on the side. When the time came to build a new cloud platform, I was in a position to be the expert at it and was able to implement the platform for my employer, resulting in millions a year in cloud savings.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#116

Post by MockObject »

TameAntelope wrote: post #74
laserlight wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 32 pomodoros equal to 32*25 = 800 minutes (13h 20m)?

A pomodoro is four 25 minute sessions with a 5 minute break between each session. One "pomodoro" takes 2 hours to complete.

"Using this method, you break your workday into 25-minute chunks separated by five-minute breaks. These intervals are referred to as pomodoros. After about four pomodoros, you take a longer break of about 15 to 20 minutes."

https://www.themuse.com/advice/take-it-from-someone-who-hate....

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#117

Post by djrobstep »

HWR_14 wrote: post #96
djrobstep wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not comfortable talking about your age? Why not? Can you just give a broad range?

He's not comfortable divulging that. Let it go. I understood and expected he may not want to share either of the things he expected. Declining information about yourself online is reasonable and requires no further explain action. I mainly was curious if he was young enough he was burning himself out and the burn out hadn't caught up to him.

Saying “I am under 30” for instance is hardly divulging anything that could possibly be sensitive.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#119

Post by kingboss »

applgo443 wrote: post #112

A meta rant - There's a lot of cancel culture at play around working hard. I don't understand why people are trying to guilt/shame others into working less. And yet, at the same time, watch documentaries about successful people (Kanye, Michael Jordan) talking about how hard they used to work and celebrate it. In order for you to be on the top of your field, you need to put in hours and hours of work. You'd have to sa…

"Working hard" has been proven time and time again that doesn't work. Most of the success stories you heard of weren't because of hard work but because luck and connections. But don't worry work 16 hours a day and you will be the next bill gates in no time. bruhhahahahaha I still find it funny that there are so many people who think hard work pays off.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#120

Post by kingboss »

TameAntelope wrote: post #13

I'll give you an actual contrarian take on working long hours: I like it, and I'm really tired of people commenting on what hours I keep. I enjoy my work. It's what I'd be doing in my spare time if I didn't need or have this job. I've thought about this, and I think I'd stick around at my role even if I hit a windfall, because I want to see this through to the end, one way or another. Sometimes, in order to do the ki…

It's the other way around. You think there is "nobility" in working more than 40 hours a week. There isn't. Stop pretending.
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