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Web3 is centralized and inefficient

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521–530 of 769 posts

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#521
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What also is amazing is that people are now buying art for huge amounts of money, not because it's good art or it has any value, but because it's NFT art. So it's even worse than you say, they are selling a sign pointing to a very cheap house, but not for the price of the house but by overvaluing the sign's value.

Because of the speculation and the “hidden” drive to make money (it’s basically a 21th century goldrush) makes it that it will never be what proponents usually advocate (decentralized, everyone benefits, open) 2002-2008 internet (before Facebook) was more Web3 in spirit probably then this Web3 bamboozle.

My sense is that a lot of people who are zealotic about "web3" are people who never got to experience pre-FB, and want to do something about it.

I wish them all the best, but I'm not optimistic yet.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#522
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point from the same source: > For example, OpenSea serves most of the NFTs they mint over HTTP. If the OpenSea ever collapses, ~8% of NFTs vanish.

The NFTs will still exist and be tradeable outside of OpenSea even if OpenSea itself disappears because they live within a smart contract.

Open seas contract code is not open AFAIK (binary is obviously available but I have not seen source other than decompile) Many contracts can be updated by leveraging proxy contracts. They can delete your nft if you mint with their contact.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly a legal problem, there are plenty of countries and US states where many kinds of sex work are perfectly legal, and having your life ruled by credit agencies is far from universal. I understand that with decent regulation illegal goods can't just fly under the radar anymore, I'm just saying that in the current ecosystem there is a use case for this fake money where real money simply cannot be exchanged rel…

> It's hardly a legal problem, there are plenty of countries and US states where many kinds of sex work are perfectly legal How is it not a legal problem, when it's apparently possible to solve it entirely by having a different legislation?

Generally you need to change legislation in a country that you do not have citizenship in.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#524
post #259
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFTs will still exist and be tradeable outside of OpenSea even if OpenSea itself disappears because they live within a smart contract.

They will point to nothing and hence (hopefully) be worthless

Yep, exactly. Opensea hosts most of their minted NFTs on HTTP.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#525
post #97

People use centralized systems because they actually like the convenience that comes with it. And with that, comes the decentralized system changing in such a way that it changes to almost NEEDING centralization. The problem is that engineers and cybersecurity people all think that everyone else thinks like they do, when in actuality the complete opposite is true. The biggest example is the internet itself - the inte…

If blockchain had never been invented, we'd be a lot farther ahead. BitTorrent proves the idea can work. And Tox is already totally usable, aside from it's mobile data usage. Federation is the other problem. It's decentralized without real end user benefits other that a bit of censorship resistance, within the limits of the hosting company. It doesn't add reliability or offline communications on the LAN.

BitTorrent works great, for transferring files. It is completely useless at transferring money or money-adjacent things. That's the fundamental innovation.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> literally an article about having fun staying poor And here it is. When the technical merits of “web3” fail to illicit genuine change (networks effects are powerful and matter [0]), its advocates fall back on the “get in or stay out” mentality, which is frankly a red flag for a supposedly technical project. > could just as easily be steered into "how to improve the concept of Web3" If web3 cannot sustain itself due…

> Coinbase complies with sanctions. OpenSea removes artwork. Complying with sanctions is a good thing; removing stolen artwork is a good thing. You... know this, right?

I believe his point is that these good things wouldn't be possible if it were decentralized

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy. Most people don't want to run their own mail servers. That isn't the same thing as saying we need a single entity to be in charge of email. There are thousands of independent email providers. Your emails get marked as spam if you have two users, not if you have two thousand. And small providers getting marked as spam isn't because it's necessary to prevent spam, it's because large providers…

It's telling that email is the last popular, useful protocol. Almost every application (chat, video conferencing, file sharing etc.,) since then have been proprietary and closed wall gardens. It is as if big corporations clearly saw open protocols being a big threat to their monopoly and either didn't bother building apps that adhere to existing protocols or were openly hostile to them.

What?

HTTPS, HTTP, TCP, UDP, ICMP, ACME, DNS, NVMe, PCIe, SATA, WS.

WebRTC (used for communication) uses SCTP and TLS. SMTP (email) came out in 1981. SCTP in 2000. There are _many_ _many_ _many_ more examples, but that beats your statement by a solid 19 years.

I could keep going but I think you get the picture.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#528

> A lot of Web3 platforms are in fact centralized. Your wallet (MetaMask), marketplaces (OpenSea), APIs (Alchemy) are all central platforms. Sure, they use a distributed database (blockchain), but before that it’s still a Go app on AWS, meaning its centralized. > Your wallet (MetaMask) Run your own node. This is lazy reporting to reach the end point about fawning over FreeBSD (its in the article, literally an article…

> Run your own node. This is lazy reporting It isn't practical for the majority of people to run their own node. Even Vitalik Buterin acknowledges[1] this isn't realistic for the current state of things. Last year I was interested in running a sidechain node and I was shocked when I looked at minimum system requirements. I can't just run it in the background and I have a 5600X Ryzen. Plus my NVMe drive needed to be m…

SSDs are fine, you absolutely don't need an NVMe. A mid shelf 2TB SSD is way more than enough. Processor requirements aren't that high either, but yes it is a noticeable amount of resource usage, so running in the background isn't practical.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coinbase complies with sanctions. OpenSea removes artwork. Complying with sanctions is a good thing; removing stolen artwork is a good thing. You... know this, right?

I believe his point is that these good things wouldn't be possible if it were decentralized

A torrent indexer removes a porn torrent therefor BitTorrent is centralized. The argument makes no sense.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#530
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so lets say the same JPG exists on two sets of blockchains. One is 0x12345678 and the other one is 99x12345678. How do I prove that I own the JPG?

Which one did the creator use? That's the one that has legitimacy and value. Legitimacy is basically a coordination game, where you get the best payoff by making the same choice as everyone else. To really dig into this, read this piece by Vitalik: https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/03/23/legitimacy.html

> Which one did the creator use? That's the one that has legitimacy and value.

This is exactly the crux. How do I prove who is the original creator? Vitalik's concept of legitimacy is based on EVERYONE participating. Which is simply not the case right now. To use his example:

> Elon selling Elon's tweet is the real thing, and Jeff doing the same is not. Once again, millions of dollars of value are being controlled and allocated, not by individuals or cryptographic keys, but by social conceptions of legitimacy.

> But they could also be a missed opportunity: there is little social value in helping Elon Musk earn yet another $1 million by selling his tweet when, as far as we can tell, the money is just going to himself (and, to his credit, he eventually decided not to sell). If NFTs simply become a casino that largely benefits already-wealthy celebrities, that would be a far less interesting outcome.

Of course. But what if all of the edgelords that love Elon (and happen to also have much of the control of share of wallets for ETH) decide he should make the $1M? Vitalik's view would be "well that's what the public decided". However it assumes that EVERYONE is an active participant with full knowledge of the situation.

And finally he admits himself:

> There are definitely more ideas, but this is an area that certainly deserves more active coordination and thought.

> But this goes far beyond just Ethereum itself. NFTs are one example of a large pool of capital that depends on concepts of legitimacy. The NFT industry could be a significant boon to artists, charities and other public goods providers far beyond our own virtual corner of the world, but this outcome is not predetermined; it depends on active coordination and support.

He's actually just regurgitating the ideas of a direct democracy vs a representative democracy. If the public is not fully engaged and fully informed, then this whole theory essentially breaks down.

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