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Web3 is centralized and inefficient

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Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#391

Post by bbno4 »

mmaunder wrote: post #188

I still can't get over that NFT's are just a URL pointing to the data. They don't even have an on-chain hash of the digital asset. It's like selling a sign pointing to houses for the price of the house, and claiming you own the house, hoping that the sign will increase in value the way the house does, and bragging about it. For reference: https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

This is not entirely correct. NFTs can and do exist entirely on-chain.

For reference: https://skerritt.blog/response-to-moxie/

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#392

Post by usrbinbash »

vmception wrote: post #5

> A lot of Web3 platforms are in fact centralized. Your wallet (MetaMask), marketplaces (OpenSea), APIs (Alchemy) are all central platforms. Sure, they use a distributed database (blockchain), but before that it’s still a Go app on AWS, meaning its centralized. > Your wallet (MetaMask) Run your own node. This is lazy reporting to reach the end point about fawning over FreeBSD (its in the article, literally an article…

> It could just as easily be "This isn't decentralized! Let me fix that!"

First I would like to be convinced that centralization is actually a problem.

Most things in our daily lives are centralized: Power Generation and Distribution, Water Distribution, the Logistics which put food in our stores, Infrastructure setup and maintenance, to name just a few.

Yes, even our financial systems work fine. I get my paycheck on my account, I can pay effortless with my credit card, security, maintenance, services, customer service is taken care of.

Yes, there are shitty centralized systems, and there are opressive authorities that abuse centralization. The solution to that however, is not "get rid of centralized systems".

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#393

Post by Socotra »

JSavageOne wrote: post #368
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you don't have to use centralized platforms. Sure, but you'd be missing out on the benefits of the blockchain. Who will buy your paint monkey image certificate of authenticity - let alone pay a small fortune for it - if you put it up for sale on your own website instead of the big exchange where all the whales scout for their next target to over-inflate? You're right in theory, but market forces push towards ce…

> And billions in international foreign and military aid through non-crypto means That doesn't invalidate crypto > Traditional banking and fiat money is good With flaws that crypto solves > nobody actually pays anything with crypto because of inconvenience, transfer costs, speed and value instability False, there are merchants that accept payments in crypto and stablecoins. Though it is true that asset transfers are…

If you have to do so much of your own research to finally find a useful use case for crypto or grasp the genius concept behind NFT. If no one can understand why it is so revolutionary. Is it maybe that there is nothing to be found behind the artificial complexity? Something so revolutionary should be easy to understand. The concept of Internet was easy to understand (fast communication, availability of information,...) the complexity lay in understanding the scale and the pace at which the problem would be technically solved.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#394

Post by thow-58d4e8b »

paxys wrote: post #344
koonsolo wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your house analogy is not really correct, since in a digital space, you can have an infinite number of the same house, and an infinite number of people living in that house. I consider it more like a certificate. Some cool architect made an incredible house. Lots of people live in that exact same house. But there is one who can say he bought the certificate straight from the architect himself. It doesn't give him any…

Exactly. NFTs are digital trading cards. I don't know why people can't wrap their heads around the simple concept.

There's some "lots-of-money-involved-therefore-valuable" fallacy going on here. The thinking goes:

* NFTs are explained, they sound kind of pointless

* but there is so much money involved!

* so much money involved brings lots of smart folks

* there are lots of smart folks working in NFTs space, they cannot all be wrong

* hence, there must be a there there, and we're are not smart enough to understand it

intense post-truth world vibes here

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#395

Post by wildmanx »

bbno4 wrote: post #391
mmaunder wrote: post #188

I still can't get over that NFT's are just a URL pointing to the data. They don't even have an on-chain hash of the digital asset. It's like selling a sign pointing to houses for the price of the house, and claiming you own the house, hoping that the sign will increase in value the way the house does, and bragging about it. For reference: https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

This is not entirely correct. NFTs can and do exist entirely on-chain. For reference: https://skerritt.blog/response-to-moxie/

> > Looking at many of the NFTs on popular marketplaces being sold for tens, hundreds, or millions of dollars, that URL often just points to some VPS running Apache somewhere.

> This is a lie.

Whenever somebody writes this, I immediately stop reading.

A lie is a statement of fact which is incorrect and the one stating it knew that it's incorrect. Claiming that a statement is a lie is an extraordinary claim that needs strong evidence, i.e., that the statement is indeed incorrect and that the author of it was aware of that at the time of writing. Neither is such evidence provided nor is it even attempted.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#396

Post by tchocky »

Tenoke wrote: post #331
yashg wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the book/register or the mindshare. It's a central authority (sovereign government) and it's legal system that grants and enforces the ownership rights. Remove that authority and what do you have? Anarchy. There's a reason why central authority based systems have evolved. It reduces violence.

Similarly, the value of the NFT is not in the token but in the community (artist, other NFT holders) honoring it and sometimes enforcing certain rights.

But you can't verify that the content behind this URL was the same all the time. How can you enforce rights in a court if you can't prove that the content was the same.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#397

Post by rvz »

Yawn. Once again. Another boring and weak article with no new arguments.

Not all NFTs are JPEGs and there are those that have utility like ENS [0] which anyone can register a domain and it cannot be seized. That concept works well for identities in general and here is a use case of this [1][2].

Lets address all of this:

> Web3 Platforms are Centralized

It's true for OpenSea, Alchemy and MetaMask (Owned by Infura) but that is the point of platforms. They are not hiding that fact and they know it. However, OpenSea is not Ethereum and the blockchain is the one that is claiming to be 'decentralized'.

Not everyone is using MetaMask? Maybe they are using Trust Wallet, Portis, WalletConnect or Dapper or even Ledger as their wallet.

Am I forced to use a centralized wallet like MetaMask?

> Mining is Centralized

Yeah, PoW is garbage and getting centralized due to the mining pools, but not all of Web3 cryptocurrencies are using PoW (or even PoS) are they.

> Blockchain Sucks, Period

> We need a hyper-efficient system that takes minimal computing resources to scale to a whole planet of users, while making it easy for newcomers to join the network.

Algorand? Solana?, Terra?, Stellar?, Avalanche?, Nano?

Efficient alternatives already exist and the author's arguments have been refuted to death.

Just ignore cryptocurrencies and the hype of Web3 if you don't like it then, but once again they (and others) are even incapable of simply doing that, no matter how many years they keep watching it and writing the same articles.

Until the next time we complain about Web3 on HN, I am begging anyone that knows it's doomed downfall to just ignore it and let it die. Can you do just that?

[0] https://ens.domains/

[1] https://www.skiff.org/

[2] https://www.skiff.org/updates/skiff-ens

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#398

Post by dmitriid »

jcbrand wrote: post #383
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would higher priced tickets be more accessible to poor people?

Pricing is the way in which information about supply and demand is conveyed in a decentralized manner in a free market. When prices of a good or service goes up, it incentivises other manufacturers or service providers to produce more of that good or service, which increases supply and puts downward pressure on prices. So to answer your question, higher priced tickets increases supply, which causes lower priced ticke…

There are literally thousands of concerts, and sporting events, and any other events that people buy tickets to.

Guess why people still go to Sziget or Woodstock.

Also guess why it's impossible to just click your fingers and pull an unlimited number of Woodstocks out of thin air.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#399

Post by brazzy »

bbno4 wrote: post #389

How many times do we have to have the same misinformation shoved down our throats lol https://skerritt.blog/response-to-moxie/

As long as there are still some idiots calling it "misinformation" because they want to believe so very hard in all the crypto bullshit.

The response is full of handwavy "it's being worked on" and "this is true, but..." and the full-on admission (without apparently realizing) that it's all a completely meaningless game since the real word in the form of the legal system simpyl overrides whatever your blockchain says.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#400

Post by dfabulich »

paxys wrote: post #344
koonsolo wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your house analogy is not really correct, since in a digital space, you can have an infinite number of the same house, and an infinite number of people living in that house. I consider it more like a certificate. Some cool architect made an incredible house. Lots of people live in that exact same house. But there is one who can say he bought the certificate straight from the architect himself. It doesn't give him any…

Exactly. NFTs are digital trading cards. I don't know why people can't wrap their heads around the simple concept.

If they were just trading cards, then they'd be bad, a Ponzi scheme where everybody's trying to convince everybody that their trading cards will be worth more in the future.

(One way the scammers promote the Ponzi scheme is by saying "these trading cards are so much more than trading cards," in deliberately confusing ways. That's why "people can't wrap their heads around the simple concept." The scammers are trying to conceal it.)

But NFTs are way worse than trading cards, because every time you transfer one, it wastes more electricity than an ordinary person uses in a year. So this Ponzi scheme is damaging the planet, too.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0321-8 "Bitcoin emissions alone could push global warming above 2°C"

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