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A contrarian take on working long hours

allisonpickens.substack.com

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Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#31

Post by leksak »

csydas wrote: post #20

I think that mostly I agree with the author, that there is a religious following of the long hours/never sleep work model. What has worked for me, as I am over worked and spend far too much time on meetings at all off hours, is flexible hours instead of rigid ones. My day blends a lot more, as I have periods of work and periods of "life". Instead of a rigid 8 hour block, work is just one of those chores I do, and I a…

I used to be one of the people that were ascribed the "talented" label. It opened a lot of doors, and I've had a career that initially was deemed as more successful than that of my peers. However, after burning out twice I've never recovered the ability of doing _anything cognitive_ other than physical exercise for extended durations of time. I no longer get called talented, and things are a lot more challenging --- and I'm more afraid to go after tough tasks --- but I still manage to get things done. It's just that I need a lengthy break after 2-3 hours of being cognitive.

Your comment semi-accurately reflects how I lived my life _before_ burning out. I sussed out when I tried to do a more 8-5 kind of thing. But I struggled to fit a lot of things other than "work".

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#32

Post by HWR_14 »

TameAntelope wrote: post #13

I'll give you an actual contrarian take on working long hours: I like it, and I'm really tired of people commenting on what hours I keep. I enjoy my work. It's what I'd be doing in my spare time if I didn't need or have this job. I've thought about this, and I think I'd stick around at my role even if I hit a windfall, because I want to see this through to the end, one way or another. Sometimes, in order to do the ki…

The simple solution - work two jobs. I don't care if you work 80 hours a week. I don't think it's healthy or sustainable, but maybe it is for you. And I certainly don't think your fatigued work it's as beneficial as putting in a good 40 hours. But feel free. There is no reason it has to be the same job. Make two sets of 9-5ers happy.

Meanwhile, if you set a standard that makes people expect your coworkers to work 60 hours a week, expect them not to like that.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#33

Post by jusssi »

The problem with long hours is that when applied carefully and occasionally, it sometimes does work.

Say I decide to finish what I was working on before leaving, then run into some difficult problem, finish after midnight having completed the task and solved the problem now and forever for everyone. With those 8 extra distraction-free hours I've produced equivalent output of 3 regulation work days and 2 committee meetings. I win. The mistake one can then make is to think that this can be repeated at will by staying late all the time.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#34

Post by TameAntelope »

dleslie wrote: post #19
TameAntelope wrote: post #13

I'll give you an actual contrarian take on working long hours: I like it, and I'm really tired of people commenting on what hours I keep. I enjoy my work. It's what I'd be doing in my spare time if I didn't need or have this job. I've thought about this, and I think I'd stick around at my role even if I hit a windfall, because I want to see this through to the end, one way or another. Sometimes, in order to do the ki…

I hope that you are aware that you are greatly empowering your employer by intricately interleaving your work and concept of life. If your social network, your personal support network, your community and self are tied to your work; then your employer has tremendous power over you.

Yes, they benefit substantially from my work, and I benefit substantially from doing work I love. Win-win. Not sure what's wrong with that. Besides, I don't just trust anyone, the people I work for now have earned that trust over time; I want to see them succeed, because I succeed when they do, and vice versa.

They are capable of causing me harm due to that trust, yes, but that's what opening yourself up is. If that happens, it will hurt, I will recover, and I will find a new way to mesh what I love with what I make money doing. It would suck, but I would survive it.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#35

Post by kranner »

10000truths wrote: post #28
dleslie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that you are aware that you are greatly empowering your employer by intricately interleaving your work and concept of life. If your social network, your personal support network, your community and self are tied to your work; then your employer has tremendous power over you.

This is a needlessly adversarial take. An employer that values you will empower you with commensurate compensation.

Hardly needless. Employers throw out faithful and dedicated employees all the time, even in ageist industries where it is difficult for them to find another job. I saw this happen to a close friend's father; their financial stability crumbled. He seemed to have aged 10 years overnight. It was quite a few years before I saw him not visibly depressed. Despite being a talented engineer (not in software) he never found an engineering job again.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#37

Post by TameAntelope »

HWR_14 wrote: post #32
TameAntelope wrote: post #13

I'll give you an actual contrarian take on working long hours: I like it, and I'm really tired of people commenting on what hours I keep. I enjoy my work. It's what I'd be doing in my spare time if I didn't need or have this job. I've thought about this, and I think I'd stick around at my role even if I hit a windfall, because I want to see this through to the end, one way or another. Sometimes, in order to do the ki…

The simple solution - work two jobs. I don't care if you work 80 hours a week. I don't think it's healthy or sustainable, but maybe it is for you. And I certainly don't think your fatigued work it's as beneficial as putting in a good 40 hours. But feel free. There is no reason it has to be the same job. Make two sets of 9-5ers happy. Meanwhile, if you set a standard that makes people expect your coworkers to work 60…

Simpler solution: work with people who share my values.

This isn't theoretical. I'm currently doing it, and it's immensely fun!

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#38

Post by _ZeD_ »

10000truths wrote: post #28
dleslie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that you are aware that you are greatly empowering your employer by intricately interleaving your work and concept of life. If your social network, your personal support network, your community and self are tied to your work; then your employer has tremendous power over you.

This is a needlessly adversarial take. An employer that values you will empower you with commensurate compensation.

hahahahah this is good!

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#39

Post by TameAntelope »

clpm4j wrote: post #30
TameAntelope wrote: post #13

I'll give you an actual contrarian take on working long hours: I like it, and I'm really tired of people commenting on what hours I keep. I enjoy my work. It's what I'd be doing in my spare time if I didn't need or have this job. I've thought about this, and I think I'd stick around at my role even if I hit a windfall, because I want to see this through to the end, one way or another. Sometimes, in order to do the ki…

What type of work do you do?

I wear lots of hats right now; I was employee #1 so I did whatever engineering needed doing to get our platform created and functioning. Frontend, ops, backend, selecting vendors, eventually hiring, working on compliance, helping define strategy, project management... basically anything that needs technical expertise I'm leading.

...and I'm loving every minute of it. I committed to seeing this through at least until they don't need me anymore, and I fully intend on meeting that obligation, and possibly well beyond that if the work continues to be fun.

Re: A contrarian take on working long hours

#40

Post by sneak »

leksak wrote: post #31
csydas wrote: post #20

I think that mostly I agree with the author, that there is a religious following of the long hours/never sleep work model. What has worked for me, as I am over worked and spend far too much time on meetings at all off hours, is flexible hours instead of rigid ones. My day blends a lot more, as I have periods of work and periods of "life". Instead of a rigid 8 hour block, work is just one of those chores I do, and I a…

I used to be one of the people that were ascribed the "talented" label. It opened a lot of doors, and I've had a career that initially was deemed as more successful than that of my peers. However, after burning out twice I've never recovered the ability of doing _anything cognitive_ other than physical exercise for extended durations of time. I no longer get called talented, and things are a lot more challenging ---…

It also could be age, not just the fact that you burned out twice. I definitely have less cognitive stamina than I did ten years ago. Who knows if that is age, pandemic-isolation-related, or what.
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