Web3 is centralized and inefficient • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#181

Post by cuteboy19 » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:47 AM UTC

valcron1000 wrote: post #64

yashg wrote: post #31

Agree 100%. Web3 is useless. The whole web3 thing is an extension to get more people and more real money to get into the crypto ecosystem and provide liquidity to the early adopters and insiders. I haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain. The only thing it is useful for it speculative gambling. I wrote about it some time ago and and shared here on HN https://yash.info/blog/what-is-web3/

What about international transfers without a middle man dictating what, when and how? If not for blockchain I would probably be working on a completely different field. Just because you don't find it useful does not mean that it's the same for everyone else

You would need to deal with 2 middlemen: exchange A and exchange B. And exchanges are worse than banks in every way

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#182

Post by S0und » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:47 AM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #97

People use centralized systems because they actually like the convenience that comes with it. And with that, comes the decentralized system changing in such a way that it changes to almost NEEDING centralization. The problem is that engineers and cybersecurity people all think that everyone else thinks like they do, when in actuality the complete opposite is true. The biggest example is the internet itself - the inte…

On top of this, if you're into self hosting the one thing people don't recommend to self host is an email server. It can be done but it's a real pain.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#183

Post by vmception » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:48 AM UTC

cdiddy2 wrote: post #33

wrl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Run your own node. Which platforms are doing that? Any you can name offhand? > You don't have to use their GUI. Who's doing that? > don't use Alchemy or Infura as your RPC endpoints? Who's doing that? > It could just as easily be "This isn't decentralized! Let me fix that!" Write the post, then. I'd read it.

Things like otterscan that are a locally run instance of an etherscan like site are a step in the right direction, but there is still a lot to do in this regard for sure. https://github.com/wmitsuda/otterscan

Woah! This is great! I’m glad I held space for this thread! I’ll absolutely be using this tool with Erigon

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#184

Post by silisili » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:50 AM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #97

People use centralized systems because they actually like the convenience that comes with it. And with that, comes the decentralized system changing in such a way that it changes to almost NEEDING centralization. The problem is that engineers and cybersecurity people all think that everyone else thinks like they do, when in actuality the complete opposite is true. The biggest example is the internet itself - the inte…

Complete opposite take. Imagine putting all your eggs in Myspace, Geocities, Angelfire, AOL, or probably soonish, Facebook. The internet would have up and died.

Yet these centralized providers come and go, but the web remains.

Decentralization isn't about doing things yourself, it's about having constant choice. To flee sinking ships, to bet on rising stars.

The web is fine. Web3 will pass like myspace, and the web will remain.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#185

Post by philliphaydon » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:51 AM UTC

everfree wrote: post #169

philliphaydon wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have a permanent paper trail that cannot be changed, what problem has it solved?

The problem of paper trails being changed. When something goes wrong, if you can't trust your paper trail, you can't attribute fault with certainty. Without an immutable shared database standard, it's difficult for processes like that to cross company lines. And supply chain is a fancy phrase for processes that cross many company lines.

It doesn't ensure that the data is correct, valid, hasn't been tampered with, or even entered.

A supply chain involves 3rd parties who have nothing to gain from this. If the issue is the middle man between A and C, blockchain isn't solving any problem. The distrust is with B, having a blockchained backed paper trail doesn't provide anything a database gives you right now.

You're asking for a single source of truth between A B and C. And saying you cannot trust A B or C, so you want blockchain to solve it, which needs to be created by someone, so you introduce D and now you have a central governing body who dictates everything for A B and C. Or you are A and you say 'hey B and C, you need to use this system we created cos we don't trust you!'.

Blockchain solves nothing in the supply chain.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#186

Post by Fannon » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

v_p_n_p_v wrote: post #174

What's amazing to me is that if you want to find any of these decentralized systems, you have to trust some centralized entity identifying them as the true system. For example, want to download MetaMask? How will you find it? Google MetaMask and trust that Google will have filtered out all the fake MetaMask wallets set up to steal your money. Want to lend money on a DeFi platform like Anchor? Again, Google and hope t…

How would you ever be able to trust such a trustless, decentralized database? Wouldn't all the same problems that you addressed with Google appear again?

With google, the most notable difference seems to be that it is big enough (due its single entry point nature) that people invest in gaming it.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#187

Post by TheCowboy » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

v_p_n_p_v wrote: post #174

What's amazing to me is that if you want to find any of these decentralized systems, you have to trust some centralized entity identifying them as the true system. For example, want to download MetaMask? How will you find it? Google MetaMask and trust that Google will have filtered out all the fake MetaMask wallets set up to steal your money. Want to lend money on a DeFi platform like Anchor? Again, Google and hope t…

Anecdata about thegraph:

There's a blockchain prediction market that relies on thegraph for some functionality in an attempt to make every aspect DeFi, but the performance is just garbage to the point where it should be unacceptable for real money trading.

I don't think your typical YC startup would find delivering a product in this state for public use as acceptable, but the startup behind it was flush with VC cash.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#188

Post by mmaunder » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

I still can't get over that NFT's are just a URL pointing to the data. They don't even have an on-chain hash of the digital asset. It's like selling a sign pointing to houses for the price of the house, and claiming you own the house, hoping that the sign will increase in value the way the house does, and bragging about it.

For reference: https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#189

Post by yashg » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

hunterb123 wrote: post #80

hannasanarion wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A public ledger is not inherently valuable. A trusted ledger is valuable, but a ledger doesn't have to be public to be trusted. When I swipe my card at the grocery store, I'm not shaking in my boots with my fingers crossed, doubting whether the transaction will be recorded as transmitted or not. If for some looney toons secret agent reason you need a transaction to be public, you can tweet a picture of the receipt. O…

Blockchains can be public or private, the key is they are distributed ledgers.

A private blockchain is pointless.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#190

Post by blowski » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #188

I still can't get over that NFT's are just a URL pointing to the data. They don't even have an on-chain hash of the digital asset. It's like selling a sign pointing to houses for the price of the house, and claiming you own the house, hoping that the sign will increase in value the way the house does, and bragging about it. For reference: https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

I too struggle with the concept. But I imagine the supporters of NFTs would say the value is in being the only person who can put that sign. It seems like an extremely bizarre form of conspicuous consumption, but there we go.