Web3 is centralized and inefficient • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#101

Post by uncomputation » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:34 AM UTC

smackeyacky wrote: post #82

vmception wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't care about that the impractical enthusiast stuff, I care about the bloggers that make these flippant dismissals instead of talking about the impractical things that are possible. I simultaneously observe that the impractical things can be made more practical . For example, Metamask with a non-default RPC node is great compared to using crypto before Metamask. Phantom wallet on Solana is even further impro…

This sort of argument reminds me of the old doctrinaire Marxists, who insisted communism could work if only it could be done without authoritarianism. Turns out Web3, in theory, sounds fine, but the implementations and uses of it all fall back to centralised networks and nefarious purposes. I think it's time to recognise Web3 for what it is: a massive con fronted by people who sell a fantasy of open, decentralised co…

This is precisely correct. I am hugely sympathetic to the theoretical benefits of web3, but it clearly does not deliver on these promises. Rather than move on to something else which can deliver, its proponents are insisting the emperor is fully clothed because honestly most of them don’t care a single bit about the philosophical or political dimensions of the technology but only about the profit margins they can get by deluding others to join in.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#102

Post by jjtheblunt » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:34 AM UTC

bigbonch wrote: post #61

yashg wrote: post #31

Agree 100%. Web3 is useless. The whole web3 thing is an extension to get more people and more real money to get into the crypto ecosystem and provide liquidity to the early adopters and insiders. I haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain. The only thing it is useful for it speculative gambling. I wrote about it some time ago and and shared here on HN https://yash.info/blog/what-is-web3/

Walmart Canada has used blockchain [1] to better their supply chains systems. I suspect when you say you "haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain" you're referring to the consumer space based on current offerings. I would argue that "blockchain" just as an idea and technology has plenty of use cases. [1] https://hbr.org/2022/01/how-walmart-canada-uses-blockchain-t...

what establishes its effect as "better"

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#103

Post by neelc » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #97

People use centralized systems because they actually like the convenience that comes with it. And with that, comes the decentralized system changing in such a way that it changes to almost NEEDING centralization. The problem is that engineers and cybersecurity people all think that everyone else thinks like they do, when in actuality the complete opposite is true. The biggest example is the internet itself - the inte…

This. The sad thing is that people like the convenience of centralized systems.

Humans are lazy. They'll go with the #1 option, even if it means building a centralized monopoly.

I should've made this point clearer.

Note: I am the article's author.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#104

Post by mccorrinall » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #74

mccorrinall wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know exactly one legitimate use case for blockchain: a public ledger like bitcoin. The thing is that you don’t need more than this one online currency though, right? It’s also the safest in terms of PoW [1]. I don’t see any reason for all other altcoins to exist other than charting and trading on exchanges (which is certainly fun, but does not provide value). [1] https://howmanyconfs.com/

A public ledger is not inherently valuable. A trusted ledger is valuable, but a ledger doesn't have to be public to be trusted. When I swipe my card at the grocery store, I'm not shaking in my boots with my fingers crossed, doubting whether the transaction will be recorded as transmitted or not. If for some looney toons secret agent reason you need a transaction to be public, you can tweet a picture of the receipt. O…

When I use $payment_processor/card_network then I need to trust a corporation again. I don’t want to do that due to bad experiences.

Yes, unfortunately mining is too profitable with the current prices, we need it to go back to a much lower price. Probably won’t happen for a long time (bubbles can exist for decades). Bitcoin can in theory transact more volume than VISA while using the same energy as it is now since the block time is always 10 minutes.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#105

Post by GeorgeWBasic » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:35 AM UTC

cardy31 wrote: post #91

valcron1000 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about international transfers without a middle man dictating what, when and how? If not for blockchain I would probably be working on a completely different field. Just because you don't find it useful does not mean that it's the same for everyone else

Turns out most people wanting to do international transfers without a middleman are criminals. Regular people are for the most part fine with international transfers going through banks, likely via SWIFT.

Turns out that's no longer the case since banks started to adopt cancel culture too, as seen in Canada. Overbearing governments have created legitimate use cases for crypto money transfers.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#106

Post by hannasanarion » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

hunterb123 wrote: post #80

hannasanarion wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A public ledger is not inherently valuable. A trusted ledger is valuable, but a ledger doesn't have to be public to be trusted. When I swipe my card at the grocery store, I'm not shaking in my boots with my fingers crossed, doubting whether the transaction will be recorded as transmitted or not. If for some looney toons secret agent reason you need a transaction to be public, you can tweet a picture of the receipt. O…

Blockchains can be public or private, the key is they are distributed ledgers.

A distributed ledger is also not inherently valuable.

A trusted ledger is valuable, but a ledger does not need to be distributed to be trusted. See above.

If, for some looney toons secret agent reason you need a transaction to be in a lot of places, you can ship out usb sticks, put copies of it on different data centers.

Or, just use a regular-ass bank. They already have distributed ledger systems for redundancy and responsiveness. What, you think that out of all of Chase's data centers there's only one server that has any transaction data on it?

Blockchain adds nothing that existing database and data transfer solutions don't have, but it always comes with cost and immutability (which is not the same as correctness- the >1 billion dollars stolen out of people's crypto wallets per year since 2018 is testament to that).

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#107

Post by yashg » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:37 AM UTC

bigbonch wrote: post #61

yashg wrote: post #31

Agree 100%. Web3 is useless. The whole web3 thing is an extension to get more people and more real money to get into the crypto ecosystem and provide liquidity to the early adopters and insiders. I haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain. The only thing it is useful for it speculative gambling. I wrote about it some time ago and and shared here on HN https://yash.info/blog/what-is-web3/

Walmart Canada has used blockchain [1] to better their supply chains systems. I suspect when you say you "haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain" you're referring to the consumer space based on current offerings. I would argue that "blockchain" just as an idea and technology has plenty of use cases. [1] https://hbr.org/2022/01/how-walmart-canada-uses-blockchain-t...

Can you please connect me with someone in the tech team at Walmart Canada who was part of this implementation? I am really curious to know exactly what it is that they store in blockchain. What kind of chain it is public or private. What is the consensus mechanism?

A public truly distributed PoW blockchain is slow and inefficient by design. It's a feature not a bug. A private, permissioned, controlled blockchain is pointless. So I really want to know what are these companies doing when they use blockchain for supposed benefits.

Blockchain in supply chain is often the most publicized use case. It somehow assumes that since blockchain is immutable (actually it isn't) whatever you add to it is authentic. Using it for supply chain assumes that a supplier won't lie about the origin or if they employed child labor. Using a blockchain doesn't automatically guarantee any of these.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#108

Post by sohailk » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:37 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #27

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #15

This seems like the angry ramblings of someone who missed the boat. I'm not invested in cryptocurrency or other tokens, but this seems very unfair to the ecosystems that power them. Sure, there are centralized wallets, marketplaces, APIs, but that's just not the point, not the problem they're trying to solve. If Google deletes your account, that's it. If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect…

> If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect to your wallet and let you continue where you left off. Or not, because they all use the OpenSea API instead of bothering with the blockchain.

Alchemy has a NFT indexer api as well. I also know of at least two other offerings that will launch very soon. Additionally, you can interact w the Opensea contracts without a UI.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#109

Post by olliej » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:38 AM UTC

bigbonch wrote: post #61

yashg wrote: post #31

Agree 100%. Web3 is useless. The whole web3 thing is an extension to get more people and more real money to get into the crypto ecosystem and provide liquidity to the early adopters and insiders. I haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain. The only thing it is useful for it speculative gambling. I wrote about it some time ago and and shared here on HN https://yash.info/blog/what-is-web3/

Walmart Canada has used blockchain [1] to better their supply chains systems. I suspect when you say you "haven't found one legitimate use case for blockchain" you're referring to the consumer space based on current offerings. I would argue that "blockchain" just as an idea and technology has plenty of use cases. [1] https://hbr.org/2022/01/how-walmart-canada-uses-blockchain-t...

I do not see anything in this that would not be resolved by a trivial database, and if you read the article that is what they have created: It is a private "blockchain" that only allows trusted participants, so doesn't require all the negative externalities of "blockchain".

The only thing "blockchain" about what Walmart has done is riding the absurd investor hype for anything with blockchain in the title.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#110

Post by sohailk » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 4:39 AM UTC

djur wrote: post #75

fastball wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get banned from OpenSea but still want to sell your Bored Ape, you definitely still can, and almost certainly for whatever the market rate on OpenSea is.

What if the NFT itself gets banned from OpenSea?

There's a few more NFT market places you can sell it on? You can try selling it P2P? Opensea is reliant on the NFT marketplace/culture, not the other way around.