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Web3 is centralized and inefficient

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Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#12

Can someone explain what Web3 is in 50 words or less to a layman?

It's a bit of a misnomer. Web2 was supposed to be a utopian version of the open Web where all data was available via API, and the noble task was to connect all this data with programs until all information was available to the world. Web3 is really the same utopia wrapped up in the blockchain, perhaps with money replacing data and blockchains replacing APIs.

65 words, but still ...

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#13
Yes: Tor is "somewhat decentralized" in that there are 9 servers run by people to maintain the directory instead of 1, and Roger Dingledine--one of the main people behind Tor--claims to have met in person only like 2/3rds of the participants; but is it as centralized as Etheteum? No. Most "web3" tech (god I hate that term as someone actively in this space :/), BTW, literally are based at least some way--if not extremely literally--on DHTs... including Ethereum, whose nodes self-organize using the Kademlia DHT model. The problem is that you have to figure out some way to deal with sybil and eclipse attacks--which I2P (referenced as somehow good in this article) was so bad at dealing with that it was essentially destroyed by the UCSB security lab, the principal investigator of whom, if you now talk to him years later, stopped bothering to research I2P as they never bothered to really address previous complaints--is that you need to figure out some way to make it hard to join the network (without throwing up your hands in defeat and simply assuming that 9 hobbyists are going to be sufficient to police a network like Tor, which we know is precarious as people keep finding new large, dominating entities to report about every few years), and that's exactly what all the work on cryptocurrencies is about: figuring out the incentive structure for how to avoid these attacks we have been studying since well before Bitcoin pioneered Nakamoto probalistic consensus (I was doing distributed systems research in like 2003 and we had been talking about these attacks for years earlier even then) and then how to protect and come to consensus on that incentive system itself (as you rapidly end up figuring out you need some kind of tradable and storable reputation system... aka money). The reality is that cryptocurrencies are the most recent culmination of distributed systems research, and the extent to which they are inefficient sadly is largely because humans simply have not yet figured out how to do it better (and if you really think you can, please do instead of calling the people actually doing this work somehow stupid for not doing the "obvious" thing of attaching a DHT up to a branch and bound or map-reduce computation system, as that was the work people at UCSB were trying to do back in early 2000s and you know what the professor who was in charge of that lab is now super excited about? cryptocurrencies, as he knows they solve real problems he ran into trying to build a decentralized computation platform). (And to be clear: do I think Ethereum or even Avalanche has solved all the issues yet? Hell no. But they are going in the correct direction... if--and this is where the reasonable arguments about cryptocurrencies tend to be--you believe decentralized systems are actually important to achieve or should ever be used instead of a centralized one: some people seem to disagree with this--which I certainly disagree with, but I don't think is entirely crazy--and that leads them to constantly want to replace cryptocurrencies with centralized systems, but you can't point at older decentralized systems and somehow claim they are better than what we are building today without first analyzing why they never really went anywhere and asking how and where--and then why--cryptocurrencies and their distributed blockchain tech are actually even that different.)

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#15
This seems like the angry ramblings of someone who missed the boat.

I'm not invested in cryptocurrency or other tokens, but this seems very unfair to the ecosystems that power them. Sure, there are centralized wallets, marketplaces, APIs, but that's just not the point, not the problem they're trying to solve.

If Google deletes your account, that's it. If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect to your wallet and let you continue where you left off.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#16

Can someone explain what Web3 is in 50 words or less to a layman?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3

These are the first 56 words of the article:

> "Web3 is an idea for a new iteration of the World Wide Web based on blockchain technology, which incorporate concepts such as decentralization and token-based economics. Some technologists and journalists have contrasted it with Web 2.0, wherein they say data and content are centralized in a small group of companies sometimes referred to as 'Big Tech'."

The first sentence is vague. The existing Web also incorporates concepts such as decentralization and token-based economics.

The second sentence is a social/political characteristic, not a technical one. There is no reason the Web must be an oligopoly.

Similarly, there's no reason "web3" must not be one.

So we're still left without a 50-word description of web3. The above is a vague statement followed by an aspirational (rather than descriptive) statement.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#17
> Look at email, while the protocol is technically “decentralized”, but look at how big Google Workspace and Microsoft 365 is. Sure, you can easily set up an email server on a $5 VPS, I do it with my domain, but most people just leave it to big providers. Web3 is no different.

This is an interesting argument to make but I wouldn't say having large subsets belonging to single entities equates to it being "not decentralized."

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#19

> A lot of Web3 platforms are in fact centralized. Your wallet (MetaMask), marketplaces (OpenSea), APIs (Alchemy) are all central platforms. Sure, they use a distributed database (blockchain), but before that it’s still a Go app on AWS, meaning its centralized. > Your wallet (MetaMask) Run your own node. This is lazy reporting to reach the end point about fawning over FreeBSD (its in the article, literally an article…

When a product has a lot of negative externalities, and you also notice that it doesn't deliver on the promise that's meant to counterbalance those externalities, it's entirely reasonable and appropriate to conclude that the project should be rejected, rather than joining in to try to fix it. I don't know why anyone would want to build a "Web3" with people who use "have fun staying poor" as a catchphrase, or whose understanding of existing technology allows them to refer to "BSD linux". I don't want to empower or enrich those people. We already have enough of them.

Re: Web3 is centralized and inefficient

#20
This is a pretty weak piece.

> Your wallet (MetaMask), marketplaces (OpenSea), APIs (Alchemy) are all central platforms.

The whole point of the blockchain as a decentralized database idea is that people are free (in the "you don't need permission" sense) to build on it.

Just because OpenSea is a popular interface for trading NFTs it doesn't mean you can't also trade those same NFTs elsewhere.

And your wallet isn't "centralized" at all. Just because MetaMask happens to be implememented using a server doesn't mean you can't export your seed phrase and import it into (eg) TrustWallet and use that instead or as well.

> And if Web3 is “decentralized”, then why can OpenSea take away your NFTs?

Now the Moxie piece[1] on the other hand (which was linked here) is a _great_ criticism by someone who actually bothered to understand what he was doing.

And if you actually _read_ the piece you'll notice that the NFT wasn't taken away at all: it was delisted on OpenSea, and their API stopped returning it.

Moxie's criticisms of the dependency on APIs for performance are well balanced and completely valid here.

But the original piece too away all the subtle of Moxie's piece and turned it into just another boring Web3 hit piece.

[1] https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

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