The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads • Hacker News Board

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#31

Post by pmoriarty » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 12:19 AM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #25

pmoriarty wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"5-meo-dmt is extremely powerful stuff and unlike DMT it can cause you to end up in the hospital or dead" I've yet to see any definitive evidence showing that 5-MeO alone caused anyone to die. The handful of deaths I'm aware of have been from 5-MeO mixed with other substances like alcohol, and due to asphyxiation on vomit -- which can happen from alcohol alone. If you drink too much alcohol you could choke on your ow…

Have you seen someone use 5-meo before? The hamilton morris' pharmacopeia episode about 5-meo-dmt usage showed someone using it - and the state they were in made it seem extremely plausible someone could vomit and asphyxiate from that drug alone, especially if someone is using it without a trip sitter. Great episode, but that scene is pretty disturbing.

To maximize safety:

1 - don't eat or drink for at least 4 or 5 hours beforehand, so there's nothing in your stomach to vomit

2 - lie in the recovery position ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_position ) with one's mouth facing downwards to minimize the chance of aspirating any liquid

3 - don't move around

4 - be with a trained, trusted, and experienced practitioner, who you've vetted thoroughly and who you are sure can keep you safe

5 - again, don't mix substances!

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#32

Post by photochemsyn » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 12:23 AM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #26

photochemsyn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol, if consumed responsibly. We accept alcohol even though drinking too much at one sitting can kill you and drunk people routinely smash their cars into other cars, etc., so 'safety' is a relative concept. Caution is clearly the best approach. However, the claim that 'hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatively and never stop' is unsupported. These drugs share a com…

> All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol This is false. LSD and mushrooms are arguably as safe as or safer than alcohol. However... There are hundreds other psychedelic compounds in existence, and some can acutely cause death, some even at doses close to recreational levels. Phenethylamines can all be deadly, and nboms cause extremely dangerous vasoconstriction. Some significantly lower seizure threshold. I…

Just practically, 'psychedelics' can be broadly or narrowly defined. Hunger and thirst can induce hallucinations, for example. A wide variety of toxic and pharmacologically active compounds have similar side-effects. Hence, a narrow definition makes more sense, as compounds binding to the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor, which is a much smaller list:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33740877/

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#33

Post by protojacked » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 12:36 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #22

stuaxo wrote: post #20

Hamilton Morris' take on this - https://twitter.com/HamiltonMorris/status/150598073831904051... @HamiltonMorris · Mar 20 It's nice to see the NYTimes reporting on toad conservation, slightly less nice to see a journalist rehashing years of work done by me and the Pharmacopeia team while strenuously avoiding any attribution.

This is an article by the New Yorker , not by the NYTimes . The article Hamilton is talking about is probably this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/20/us/toad-venom-psychedelic...

scroll down

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#34

Post by jamal-kumar » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 1:06 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #19

jamal-kumar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this as the new yorker article kinda just scratche on it, which is a real shame considering these people have left death in their wake. Absolutely garbage journalism to somehow omit that there's murder arrest warrants out for them. There are so many psychologically manipulative, abusive people working in these spaces. Literally these people are just profiteering crackheads who got into making money…

"5-meo-dmt is extremely powerful stuff and unlike DMT it can cause you to end up in the hospital or dead" I've yet to see any definitive evidence showing that 5-MeO alone caused anyone to die. The handful of deaths I'm aware of have been from 5-MeO mixed with other substances like alcohol, and due to asphyxiation on vomit -- which can happen from alcohol alone. If you drink too much alcohol you could choke on your ow…

Yeah that's my point though, I never said how it could kill you so you're right to bring this up - To clarify I think you should probably avoid compulsive use of drugs that are so highly interactive with anything else that may be going through your system at any given time that you may die in combo. A lot of people are combining MAOIs for example with DMT and that's fine until they end up with some plant or extract with enough of the 5-MeO that they end up in the hospital with an extremely traumatizing (if you live) hypertensive crisis, for example. Hmm yeah probably not a great idea to give that out to just anyone like these absolute payasos.

I'm pretty convinced that it's got tremendous therapeutic potential like many other strong things around these lines. But group dosing like ~100 people in the way these people are doing it is just wrong on so many levels. The only way I see them going if they continue without being apprehended first is if they turn it into something like a cult, which would obviously be even worse.

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#35

Post by taneq » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #19

jamal-kumar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this as the new yorker article kinda just scratche on it, which is a real shame considering these people have left death in their wake. Absolutely garbage journalism to somehow omit that there's murder arrest warrants out for them. There are so many psychologically manipulative, abusive people working in these spaces. Literally these people are just profiteering crackheads who got into making money…

"5-meo-dmt is extremely powerful stuff and unlike DMT it can cause you to end up in the hospital or dead" I've yet to see any definitive evidence showing that 5-MeO alone caused anyone to die. The handful of deaths I'm aware of have been from 5-MeO mixed with other substances like alcohol, and due to asphyxiation on vomit -- which can happen from alcohol alone. If you drink too much alcohol you could choke on your ow…

> Yet people aren't generally freaked out when people drink alcohol.

I think you might be discarding your priors here. Alcohol use is extremely common, so even relatively uncommon negative effects will happen a lot. The important number to compare is how many people would see equivalently bad effects if the same number of people used as drank alcohol.

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#36

Post by gpcr1949 » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 1:20 AM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #12

The article briefly notes there are other sources of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, but it's very brief: > "Although the most concentrated source of 5-MeO-DMT is the Sonoran Desert toad, the compound is also produced by some plant species in Latin America, where it was traditionally used in snuffs." The author fails to mention that these toads also contain an additional spectrum of toxins: https://en.wikipedia.org…

Besides plant extraction, 5-MeO-DMT is also very easy to synthesize. For example, a commercially available and innocent precursor would be melatonin (which can be converted in one step to 5-MeO-T using KOH and then to 5-MeO-DMT using the usual techniques).

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#37

Post by Crontab » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 2:08 AM UTC

Even though I have never used drugs, psychedelics are the one thing I have wanted to try, particularly LSD. Sadly, it seems that it is not legal anywhere I can find.

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#38

Post by burner556 » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 2:33 AM UTC

Crontab wrote: post #37

Even though I have never used drugs, psychedelics are the one thing I have wanted to try, particularly LSD. Sadly, it seems that it is not legal anywhere I can find.

Just break the law. Are you seriously going to let the government tell you what you can and cannot put into your body?

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#39

Post by twomoonsbysurf » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 2:39 AM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #16

twomoonsbysurf wrote: post #4

I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…

All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol, if consumed responsibly. We accept alcohol even though drinking too much at one sitting can kill you and drunk people routinely smash their cars into other cars, etc., so 'safety' is a relative concept. Caution is clearly the best approach. However, the claim that 'hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatively and never stop' is unsupported. These drugs share a com…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads

#40

Post by 0xdeadb00f » Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 2:40 AM UTC

Crontab wrote: post #37

Even though I have never used drugs, psychedelics are the one thing I have wanted to try, particularly LSD. Sadly, it seems that it is not legal anywhere I can find.

I thought it was legal in Amsterdam?