5-MeO was extremely well known in 2013. It had already been featured multiple times on every psychedelic podcast, and there were multiple books about it. This whole article seems vaguely fake to me.
The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
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Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#12The article briefly notes there are other sources of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, but it's very brief:
> "Although the most concentrated source of 5-MeO-DMT is the Sonoran Desert toad, the compound is also produced by some plant species in Latin America, where it was traditionally used in snuffs."
The author fails to mention that these toads also contain an additional spectrum of toxins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin#Toads
The plant-based snuffs containing 5-MeO-DMT, 5-OH-DMT, etc. in contrast are likely far safer, and have a very long history of use, for example the Cebil seed, Anandenanthera colubrina, has been used for thousands of years in the northwestern Argentine region of Puna. That would be a far better source for any therapeutic use than toads.
All in all, not a very well researched article, and overly sensationalist as well.
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#13I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…
Have you seen this study on how psilocybin substantially reduced depression and anxiety in people with life threatening cancer?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367557/
Would love to know if you know anything else in the world that can do that repeatably
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#145-MeO was extremely well known in 2013. It had already been featured multiple times on every psychedelic podcast, and there were multiple books about it. This whole article seems vaguely fake to me.
I'd bet anything that the overwhelming majority of people in the world have never heard of it, and don't listen to psychedelic podcasts either.
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#15I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…
> Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate.
Counterpoint: I have done quite a lot of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT and they were both fun and interesting substances.
My advice is: Do not stay away from drugs unless: a) that is your personal preference, b) you have a specific medical issue that precludes being able to experiment with something safely or c) you are not curious enough to educate yourself thoroughly about a substance before trying it out.
HPPD is wildly exaggerated by almost exclusively people that have a vested interest in policing other people’s behavior and values. Belief in the dangers of “the ability of any substance to permanently change your brain in a negative and nonspecific way” (a hilarious logically impossible supposition) almost always follow up with “don’t do drugs, instead do what I tell you to do. Read my self help book or convert to my religion. My values are the best values.”
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#16I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…
All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol, if consumed responsibly. We accept alcohol even though drinking too much at one sitting can kill you and drunk people routinely smash their cars into other cars, etc., so 'safety' is a relative concept. Caution is clearly the best approach.
However, the claim that 'hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatively and never stop' is unsupported. These drugs share a common receptor as the basis of their action, the 5-HTP receptor, which is involved with sensory perception at some low level in the brain. This can result in 'visions' or intensified color perception or numerous other effects (synthesia, etc.) Some people enjoy the experience, others do not. The most important rule for the neophyte experimentalist to follow is 'less is more'.
Personally I found psychedelics immensely therapeutic and a great aid to quitting alcohol, and also of great benefit to my 3D-visualization skills. I'd also note that consumer culture norms ('more is always better') can cause disasters when mixed with psychedelics.
However as I note in another comment, toads are a horrible source of 5-MeO-DMT due to the fact that toads of this type contain a variety of other toxins.
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#17I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…
> Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Counterpoint: I have done quite a lot of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT and they were both fun and interesting substances. My advice is: Do not stay away from drugs unless: a) that is your personal preference, b) you have a specific…
>almost always follow up with "“don’t do drugs, instead do what I tell you to do. Read my self help book or convert to my religion. My values are the best values.”"
Eh, it's a fine line that once crossed, you don't get to come back from.
I'm glad I stopped drugs when I did. If I could go back in time, I would have never had started doing drugs in my teenage years but unfortunately it was part of my family culture.
The problem with your advice is that it comes with the risk of grievous bodily harm. Not just to one's self, in the case of: if you're predisposed to mental health problems (such as schizophrenia, etc.) or physical health problems (such as heart palpitations or other heart problems), but potentially to other people: if you're using drugs and accidentally affect someone else negatively (physically or emotionally).
I think it's naive to encourage people to do drugs, as it speaks from a place of "Drugs have always been fun and good for me. Therefore they'll always be fun and good for you!" Much like the dogmatic philosophy you mentioned-- no offense, but you seem to be representing a similar dogmatic philosophy but at the other-side of the spectrum (of drug encouragement).
Also, investigating a drug does not in any way guarantee it will not traumatize you or negatively effect you (or others) forever.
Drugs have a high risk of being dangerous, hazardous, addicting, etc.-- that's why they're controlled substances.
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#18I don't recommend it. It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no precise "dosing". Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're misfortunate. Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: "Hallucin…
All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol, if consumed responsibly. We accept alcohol even though drinking too much at one sitting can kill you and drunk people routinely smash their cars into other cars, etc., so 'safety' is a relative concept. Caution is clearly the best approach. However, the claim that 'hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatively and never stop' is unsupported. These drugs share a com…
"toads are a horrible source of 5-MeO-DMT due to the fact that toads of this type contain a variety of other toxins."
Not only that but these toads are at a risk of extinction due to the human demand for their venom.[1]
We also don't know if the toads are harmed by the venom milking process itself. Toads certainly try to get away from humans and don't seem to want to be touched. Squeezing on their glands might be painful for them, though we can't tell because they don't scream or talk, but they do try to get away.
It's ironic that so many people treat these substances as sacred, and yet the animal that has this substance in its body is so often treated without respect and without regard for its existence.
It's doubly sad because synthetic sources of 5-MeO exist, and they don't harm the toad.
[1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/20/us/toad-venom-psychedelic...
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#19See "Open Letter Concerning Abuses by Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval": https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86872
Thanks for posting this as the new yorker article kinda just scratche on it, which is a real shame considering these people have left death in their wake. Absolutely garbage journalism to somehow omit that there's murder arrest warrants out for them. There are so many psychologically manipulative, abusive people working in these spaces. Literally these people are just profiteering crackheads who got into making money…
"5-meo-dmt is extremely powerful stuff and unlike DMT it can cause you to end up in the hospital or dead"
I've yet to see any definitive evidence showing that 5-MeO alone caused anyone to die.
The handful of deaths I'm aware of have been from 5-MeO mixed with other substances like alcohol, and due to asphyxiation on vomit -- which can happen from alcohol alone.
If you drink too much alcohol you could choke on your own vomit and die. Yet people aren't generally freaked out when people drink alcohol. They should in fact be more concerned about alcohol, as it kills thousands of people every year, and is well documented to be involved in many deaths both alone and when mixed with other substances.
The lesson from this all this is don't mix 5-MeO with other substances. Also stay far away from practitioners who pour water down your throat while you're pretty much helpless and out of your body. That's incredibly dangerous -- but not because of the 5-MeO alone, but because some demented person is trying to drown you.
Also, there hasn't been enough human use of 5-MeO to know its long-term health effects, so that is an additional risk, as are its potential negative effects on mental health.
Everyone considering it should thoroughly educate themselves -- both on its risks and benefits, so they can make an informed decision.
Re: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
#20Hamilton Morris' take on this -
https://twitter.com/HamiltonMorris/status/150598073831904051...
@HamiltonMorris · Mar 20 It's nice to see the NYTimes reporting on toad conservation, slightly less nice to see a journalist rehashing years of work done by me and the Pharmacopeia team while strenuously avoiding any attribution.