Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash. • Hacker News Board

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#61

Post by sirn » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:15 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #50

It's cool. But let's admit it wouldn't be impressive if it were written in Flash...because Flash makes it relatively trivial to write something like this. So is it only impressive because it doesn't use Flash? And if so, what does that say about how wise a decision it is to start trying to replicate complex animation in Javascript, CSS3 and Canvas, just to keep Steve Jobs happy? Arguably, Jobs chose to eliminate Flas…

I don't think that's the right analogy. You're comparing tool with a technology. Adobe's tool already did all the hard part for you when you write for Flash. HTML5 can be the same too, once its tool matured enough.

Not to mention equivalent of this implementation in Flash would be equally complex. (No JS/No ActionScript.)

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#62

Post by samstave » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:20 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #50

It's cool. But let's admit it wouldn't be impressive if it were written in Flash...because Flash makes it relatively trivial to write something like this. So is it only impressive because it doesn't use Flash? And if so, what does that say about how wise a decision it is to start trying to replicate complex animation in Javascript, CSS3 and Canvas, just to keep Steve Jobs happy? Arguably, Jobs chose to eliminate Flas…

>...Jobs chose to eliminate Flash from the iPhone specifically so that casual games would have to be written natively and sold in the App store, and couldn't be played on the open web....

This is such an important point. And very illustrative of the attitude of Apple.

If any other company did this, they would be villified far and wide. But because we like apples products - it is overlooked.

It is a cunning business move.

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#63

Post by bilban » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:22 PM UTC

edd wrote: post #5

2.3MB of data for a one page site! While its pretty that is crazy big!

Not to mention that it canes my cpu at 73%. What a waste of time.

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#64

Post by noduerme » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:25 PM UTC

sirn wrote: post #61

noduerme wrote: post #50

It's cool. But let's admit it wouldn't be impressive if it were written in Flash...because Flash makes it relatively trivial to write something like this. So is it only impressive because it doesn't use Flash? And if so, what does that say about how wise a decision it is to start trying to replicate complex animation in Javascript, CSS3 and Canvas, just to keep Steve Jobs happy? Arguably, Jobs chose to eliminate Flas…

I don't think that's the right analogy. You're comparing tool with a technology . Adobe's tool already did all the hard part for you when you write for Flash. HTML5 can be the same too, once its tool matured enough. Not to mention equivalent of this implementation in Flash would be equally complex. (No JS/No ActionScript.)

If that's true, then someone's ability to rewrite the tool is academic. And if it's academic, then this isn't impressive. My point is that it's impressive only in the sense that it rewrites the tools.

I can rewrite Adobe's tools in JS 1.5 and CSS3. I went a long way towards doing it - I wrote a whole platform. http://strikedisplay.blogspot.com. Mainly because I was scared of losing the tools I like to have around. But after gaining what I think is a pretty granular, deep understanding of which operations take longer in one or the other (pretty much everything takes longer in JS 1.5), and the trade-offs in other kinds of operations -- the only good thing about HTML5 is that you can force multithreading to suck up an even larger chunk of cycles, a fact that won't be lost on the porn/malware mafia.

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#65

Post by oni0n56 » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:32 PM UTC

sequoia wrote: post #40

It seems like if you wait long enough the gears start moving. On Chrome I just saw the closed aperture for several minutes and gave up, on FF I saw the arm and pendulum moving but that's all, 'til I came back several minutes later and the gears were moving. Haven't been able to get that "gear moving" effect again tho. I think file-size/load-time is actually a problem in this case, even as an art piece, as it's taking…

Closed aperture issue should be fixed now.. (was an issue with the analytics platform going down due to traffic, not the size of images (though that is of course pretty big))

And thanks for all your feedback!

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#66

Post by doomlaser » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:35 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #62

noduerme wrote: post #50

It's cool. But let's admit it wouldn't be impressive if it were written in Flash...because Flash makes it relatively trivial to write something like this. So is it only impressive because it doesn't use Flash? And if so, what does that say about how wise a decision it is to start trying to replicate complex animation in Javascript, CSS3 and Canvas, just to keep Steve Jobs happy? Arguably, Jobs chose to eliminate Flas…

>...Jobs chose to eliminate Flash from the iPhone specifically so that casual games would have to be written natively and sold in the App store, and couldn't be played on the open web.... This is such an important point. And very illustrative of the attitude of Apple. If any other company did this, they would be villified far and wide. But because we like apples products - it is overlooked. It is a cunning business m…

This is not true at all. Jobs didn't include Flash on the iPhone because of its performance requirements.

Apple didn't realize how important the App Store would be to the device's popularity when the iPhone initially launched. It appeared that the intent was to keep it a closed, curated platform where only Apple and its partners could ship products for it. This was the strategy that they had established for third party iPod clickwheel games.

In fact, Apple initially raved about how great "Web Apps" would be on the device, and showcased crude web based games at WWDC 2007.

It was largely due to developer outcry that Apple responded with the App Store, and it was a much larger hit than anyone predicted. The business savvy was in their ability to roll with it.

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#67

Post by doomlaser » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #57

nupark2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree. Would anyone be impressed if I did this in ObjC / CoreAnimation? It would be simple enough. Posts like this remind me of the old "year of the Linux desktop" crowd: People demonstrating how Linux can (often poorly) do the baseline simple things that other operating systems have been doing for years or decades. Meanwhile, those other desktop operating systems were leapfrogging ahead.

Yeah, the only difference being that every company besides Adobe is choosing this as the new web standard -- instead of doing what they should do, which is writing browsers compatible with ECMA-4/5 standards, and making either AS3 or JS2 built in with a genuine screen graph so animations don't have to be tied to this absurd 1994-era DOM for the next decade or longer. Short of that, they should allow any and all plugi…

> so animations don't have to be tied to this absurd 1994-era DOM for the next decade or longer.

You haven't been paying attention to Adobe's latest moves with Flash.

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/flash-platform-in-action/console-q...

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37678/Epic_Games_Unreal_E...

And what's more, check out their W3C proposal for CSS Shaders, a feature which they are partners in with Apple:

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/css-shaders.html

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#68

Post by corin_ » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

sequoia wrote: post #41

By the way, did anyone else notice that the pendulum completes a cycle every 1.3 seconds? Am I wrong or would this make your clock run very slowly? /me goes back to critiquing the physics of minecraft. :p

Yes you are wrong, the cogs turn the pendulum's speed into three different speeds - one for each hand. Some/most/all (not sure) clocks with pendulums have weights that allow you to alter the weight on the pendulum to adjust if your clock is running too slow or fast.

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#69

Post by Luc » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:42 PM UTC

dougaitken wrote: post #32

kinofcain wrote: post #13

Apple actually has an embarrassingly straightforward implementation of a CSS3 clock on their ipod nano page: http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/

umm where?

For me it's just showing a static image, no matter what browser I use. This one: http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/images/overview_hero.jpg

Re: Impressive html5/css3 clock; no Flash.

#70

Post by noduerme » Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 7:42 PM UTC

doomlaser wrote: post #66

samstave wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...Jobs chose to eliminate Flash from the iPhone specifically so that casual games would have to be written natively and sold in the App store, and couldn't be played on the open web.... This is such an important point. And very illustrative of the attitude of Apple. If any other company did this, they would be villified far and wide. But because we like apples products - it is overlooked. It is a cunning business m…

This is not true at all. Jobs didn't include Flash on the iPhone because of its performance requirements. Apple didn't realize how important the App Store would be to the device's popularity when the iPhone initially launched. It appeared that the intent was to keep it a closed, curated platform where only Apple and its partners could ship products for it. This was the strategy that they had established for third par…

Again, the performance requirements of Canvas, DOM, JS 1.5 and CSS3 are far higher than AVM2/AS3/Flash 10. They just take 5x as much processing power to perform the same graphics tasks. This isn't a fact in doubt, but I feel obligated to respond everytime someone brings up this argument. It's not true. If they wanted a faster platform, they would have chucked webkit and written JS2 or AS3 into their browser.