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TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

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Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#31

Post by reaperducer »

Luc wrote: post #17
Brajeshwar wrote: post #3

I have had many experiences where I tried to order tea at a small tea-stalls (digitally empowered) on the streets of India, and first thing they ask is my phone number! I reject anyone asking my phone number unless dire and a must-one. I also noticed that almost everyone will blurt out their number when anyone ask them.

What do they do with the number?

In the U.S., if it's a supermarket or a large chain store, they either sell it to other companies, or use it as a unique ID for your purchase history and customer profile. Sometimes both.

I'm not sure what a small-time tea stall would do.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#32

Post by superasn »

The best way to run truecaller is to install this app called 'Island'. This creates a new profile called work profile for you. Use a new google id for this work profile. Then install true caller inside island. I rarely use it but all I have to do is turn on the work profile, look up a number and then turn it back off.

I keep all crap apps in the work profile since there is a shortcut in the android drawer to turn it off and on in 1 click. I also assume it saves a bit of battery since these apps can't drain it while work profile is off.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#33

Post by dankboys »

amelius wrote: post #23
inglor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife installed TrueCaller on her phone. She is technical but not a developer. I asked if she knows they steal your contact list and spy on you and her answer was “so? It’s just phone numbers and names and they need to get the data somewhere as they are providing the service for free” I live in a developed country and we have a high standard of living. Giving this anecdote to illustrate many people genuinely don’t…

We definitely need some scenarios where this kind of spying plays out badly for the user, so we can use them in arguments against these practices. Without examples, I can't blame users for calling these dangers hypothetical, really.

Perhaps too niche, but Bellingcat have used these sort of apps in the past to identify Russian officers

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#34

Post by reaperducer »

mountainofdeath wrote: post #29
fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

I consider it a fair trade. I hand over my contacts and you tell me with high-confidence who the other person on the other end is.

Can you explain what it is that gives you the right to hand other people's personal information to another entity?

Especially as part of a commercial transaction to a for-profit company?

"Hey, Bob! I'm going to give some company your name, phone number, occupation, and whatever else I know about you stored in my contact list in exchange for a beer. Is that OK?"

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#35

Post by httgp »

mountainofdeath wrote: post #29
fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

I consider it a fair trade. I hand over my contacts and you tell me with high-confidence who the other person on the other end is.

The issue here is that your contacts did not agree to you sharing their information with a third-party.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#36

Post by jeffbee »

wara23arish wrote: post #28
CyberShadow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I give you my phone number, and you have True Caller installed and save my number to your contacts, I unknowingly and unconsensually also give my phone number to True Caller and essentially the entire world.

Aren’t yellow pages also adding everybody’s number without consent? I didn’t grow up with them so I might be wrong.

It was the white pages but yes. That's why there is such a yawning gap between reality, where nobody gives a fuck if you know my phone number, and niche online privacy activism, where for some reason people care a lot.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#37

Post by lelandfe »

inglor wrote: post #10
fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

My wife installed TrueCaller on her phone. She is technical but not a developer. I asked if she knows they steal your contact list and spy on you and her answer was “so? It’s just phone numbers and names and they need to get the data somewhere as they are providing the service for free” I live in a developed country and we have a high standard of living. Giving this anecdote to illustrate many people genuinely don’t…

It's worth noting that Instagram does this too, under the guise of "Find Your Friends." When you sign up for a new account, they aggressively prompt you to sync your contacts list with the app, and will continually prompt you in the future if you choose not to. Nearly all of my friends have this enabled.

This is not a one-time sync, either. It will upload future new contacts and changes.

And, finally, if you manage to create a new account without a phone number, Instagram appears to flag your account for suspicious activity at some point and mandates that you do. They can then correspond your phone number with other users' contact lists to determine your identity. It can even suss out if you provided a Google Voice/VOIP number and require a "real" one instead.

https://help.instagram.com/195069860617299

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#38

Post by redtriumph »

happylion0801 wrote: post #24

Indias privacy laws are truly lacking. I am surprised that the government hasn’t enacted any laws for this yet. I have a number of stories for this. Indians are so used to this that sometimes people are shocked when I say no to sharing information that they request. For example in a startup, the HR reached out on WhatsApp to all employees in a group and asked for certain documents and information etc. About Truecalle…

In India, privacy is always secondary. I remember, last time I was at jewelry shop in Western MH, I had to provide PAN card or Aadhar card since purchase warranted this check. W/o even thinking, folks in my family forwarded those details on Whatsapp.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#39

Post by compsciphd »

reaperducer wrote: post #30
compsciphd wrote: post #11

true caller's dumping of one's contact list is no different what facebook did (and does, though now does with a bit more transparency than in the app's earlier days)

true caller's dumping of one's contact list is no different what facebook did I don't see anyone in this discussion saying that what Facebook did was OK. Or is that the point that you're making? Because one person stole a car, it's OK for everyone else to steal cars, too?

no. I'm still pissed off at facebook for doing that, and I tried at one point to convince a class action firm that deals in privacy related things to take it up as a case. I'd like if people who are upset at truecaller for this, aim some of their ire at facebook.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#40

Post by RubyRidgeRandy »

reaperducer wrote: post #34
mountainofdeath wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider it a fair trade. I hand over my contacts and you tell me with high-confidence who the other person on the other end is.

Can you explain what it is that gives you the right to hand other people's personal information to another entity? Especially as part of a commercial transaction to a for-profit company? "Hey, Bob! I'm going to give some company your name, phone number, occupation, and whatever else I know about you stored in my contact list in exchange for a beer. Is that OK?"

Do you make someone sign a legal document when you give them your number detailing the uses and limitations of how they can share your number? No. You don't.

Once you give your info away it is not "your" info anymore. It is info about you, but you do not own it.

Is it rude? sure, but not illegal.

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