Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

restofworld.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 137 posts

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#21

Post by putlake »

fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

This illustrates the reverse lookup problem with these services. You can take pains to use a Google account with zero contacts. That safeguards the information of your contacts. But Trucaller already has your information because they get it from other people who have added you in their contacts list, and who aren't as privacy conscious as you are.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#22

Post by martin_a »

criddell wrote: post #7
gruez wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Check if your number is already in How do you check whether your number is "in"?

Enter your phone number on this page: https://www.truecaller.com/ Once you do, you have to log in with either your Google or Microsoft identity and agree to let them download your contacts.

You must be joking. You are joking? Aren't you?!?

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#23

Post by amelius »

inglor wrote: post #10
fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

My wife installed TrueCaller on her phone. She is technical but not a developer. I asked if she knows they steal your contact list and spy on you and her answer was “so? It’s just phone numbers and names and they need to get the data somewhere as they are providing the service for free” I live in a developed country and we have a high standard of living. Giving this anecdote to illustrate many people genuinely don’t…

We definitely need some scenarios where this kind of spying plays out badly for the user, so we can use them in arguments against these practices. Without examples, I can't blame users for calling these dangers hypothetical, really.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#24

Post by happylion0801 »

Indias privacy laws are truly lacking. I am surprised that the government hasn’t enacted any laws for this yet.

I have a number of stories for this. Indians are so used to this that sometimes people are shocked when I say no to sharing information that they request.

For example in a startup, the HR reached out on WhatsApp to all employees in a group and asked for certain documents and information etc.

About Truecaller: - It’s default opt in (with almost no way to opt out*)

- It requires access to your entire contact list - to mitigate this, I request Apple and Google to implement folders for contacts or something similar to how you can limit access to all photos on iOS per app. That way you can create an empty folder and share it with Truecaller

- It’s also impossible to change the wrong data that Truecaller somehow gets from some other contact list

My sibling recently got a new number and Truecaller assumed some other name and identity. Fellow Indians believe Truecaller more than they believe the person they are talking to (shows how much spam gets passed around)

This is NOT just TrueCaller. The same thing happens with Paytm and other payment apps.

Paytm for example assumed another identity and they requested us to submit multiple docs to prove our identity even though we never used the platform before. Even after multiple attempts and submitting multiple ids they refuse to change the data

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#25

Post by CyberShadow »

wara23arish wrote: post #19

Is true caller any different than an automated yellow pages?

If I give you my phone number, and you have True Caller installed and save my number to your contacts, I unknowingly and unconsensually also give my phone number to True Caller and essentially the entire world.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#26

Post by happylion0801 »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #2

I believe, Truecaller is an auto opt-in and you have to manually opt out if you want your number not be listed. I had to "unlist" my number manually. Check if your number is already in and then unlist at https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting

There is no such thing as unlisting a number, atleast last time we tried multiple times but it still keeps showing up

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#27

Post by mikeyouse »

An interesting side effect of these types of companies popped up during the Navalny team's investigation of Putin's alleged yacht in Italy. They got the ship's crew manifest and then used a database like TrueCaller to check it out. The manifest had the crewmember's name and a phone number - so when you look up the number associated with 'Alexander Pechurkin', other people have him listed as "Sanya FSB" "Alexander FSO" and "Alexander Graceful Procurement". [FSB = Russian security services, FSO ~= secret service, 'Graceful' = Putin's previous yacht]. Pretty interesting work history and descriptions for a Boatswain's mate in Italy.

https://youtu.be/WyYp9xPLa8s?t=423

These lists must be a gold mine for intelligence agencies.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#28

Post by wara23arish »

CyberShadow wrote: post #25
wara23arish wrote: post #19

Is true caller any different than an automated yellow pages?

If I give you my phone number, and you have True Caller installed and save my number to your contacts, I unknowingly and unconsensually also give my phone number to True Caller and essentially the entire world.

Aren’t yellow pages also adding everybody’s number without consent?

I didn’t grow up with them so I might be wrong.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#29

Post by mountainofdeath »

fareesh wrote: post #4

When you install the app they steal your contact list and populate their database that way. Most people are unaware of this, or don't care since we are a third world country and privacy is seen as a first world problem. The vast majority of thinking here is not very sophisticated about these types of topics. Only a very tiny fraction of the total population is averse to sharing personal information like phone numbers…

I consider it a fair trade. I hand over my contacts and you tell me with high-confidence who the other person on the other end is.

Re: TrueCaller built a billion-dollar caller ID data empire in India

#30

Post by reaperducer »

compsciphd wrote: post #11

true caller's dumping of one's contact list is no different what facebook did (and does, though now does with a bit more transparency than in the app's earlier days)

true caller's dumping of one's contact list is no different what facebook did

I don't see anyone in this discussion saying that what Facebook did was OK.

Or is that the point that you're making? Because one person stole a car, it's OK for everyone else to steal cars, too?

Post reply on HN