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Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

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Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#81

Post by analog31 »

whatshisface wrote: post #73
analog31 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> That would be, like... a typical office full of programmers. Or jazz musicians.

A society of jazz musicians would look a lot more foreign to us than one of software engineers. ;)

Oddly enough since I'm both a programmer and a jazz musician, I've noticed some interesting parallels. In both cases the practitioners come from all walks of life, and many of them either bailed out of the mainstream education system, or had a negative experience with it. For this reason you have people with music degrees sharing the bandstand with those who learned by doing. I'm halfway between those camps, having taken classical music lessons through high school but learning jazz on my own.

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#82

Post by yeaman1231 »

belval wrote: post #32
Scarblac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind or deaf people would probably feel pretty bad hearing "you don't want a blind or deaf kid".

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a blind or deaf kid. I take issue with the idea that given the technology we would refuse to fix their disability before they are born. Try explaining to your son or daughter that they could've been able to see and hear, but you refused to avoid hurting the feelings of existing blind and deaf people...

> Try explaining to your son or daughter that they could've been able to see and hear, but you refused to avoid hurting the feelings of existing blind and deaf people...

more like try explaining to your son or daughter that they wouldn't have been born at all

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#83

Post by musicale »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #76

Anyone know of any unexpected consequences of using this for IVF? It seems to me that we are falling into brave-new-world territory without really trying. I'm sure parents will do this to help their kids but I wonder what the negative issues will be? Gender selection is one but that's already being done by other means. What will this particular technology bring?

The Gattaca premise sounds pretty logical but not unexpected. Presumably they will optimize for what they might view to be "favorable" genes associated with preferred traits (skin/hair/eye color, beauty/symmetry, strength, height, intelligence, disease resistance, aggression, etc.) while attempting to eliminate the others.

This will (possibly) convey an increased "genetic" advantage upon the wealthy and privileged, while reinforcing societal structures that punish and exploit those who haven't been engineered the same way.

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#84

Post by bradleyjg »

oneoff786 wrote: post #80
bradleyjg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be an option for parents with a genetic condition who don’t want to pass it on. Most of the genetic disorders we know about can already be screened for (those that involve a single gene). This opens the door for polygenic screening but the underlying patterns to screen for are, in most cases, only weakly understood. We’d need to do a lot more research on adults with these diseases to get to the point where…

I’m starting to look into this. We have a single uncommon mutation to deal with, that’s just a fairly large cancer risk. Early advice has been that it’s still pretty hard to do single gene mutation screens. Needing samples from multiple relatives with the mutation to build a reliable screen.

My understanding is that it’s necessary to get genetic samples from both parents and best to get them from all four grandparents, but if you can’t get the grandparents they can still develop a test with slightly reduced accuracy if there are three or more embryos to sample.

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#86

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

musicale wrote: post #83
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #76

Anyone know of any unexpected consequences of using this for IVF? It seems to me that we are falling into brave-new-world territory without really trying. I'm sure parents will do this to help their kids but I wonder what the negative issues will be? Gender selection is one but that's already being done by other means. What will this particular technology bring?

The Gattaca premise sounds pretty logical but not unexpected. Presumably they will optimize for what they might view to be "favorable" genes associated with preferred traits (skin/hair/eye color, beauty/symmetry, strength, height, intelligence, disease resistance, aggression, etc.) while attempting to eliminate the others. This will (possibly) convey an increased "genetic" advantage upon the wealthy and privileged, w…

Good point, people don't realize it or admit it but being born with what society defines as beautiful features gives a person big advantages in life. It's like hitting the lottery as far as advantages vs someone that's not. If you're already wealthy you'll be able to buy those advantages for your kids. It will be one of the greatest inheritance parents can give them.

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#87

Post by sweetbitter »

evan_ wrote: post #14
legalcorrection wrote: post #10

Thinking about the social and political implications of this in the long run. Any society or segment of any society that isn't producing average 120 IQ babies with superior sensory perception, physical strength, dexterity, and so forth, is going to turn itself into a permanent human underclass. Eugenics is here to stay this time.

> Any society or segment of any society that isn't producing average 120 IQ babies with superior sensory perception, physical strength, dexterity, and so forth Where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.

Haha, Lake Wobegon?

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#88

Post by Teever »

riskQtempAcc wrote: post #53
belval wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A society of 120 IQ adults would probably be an insufferable hell beyond comprehension, considering the track record of intellectual movements and the proclivity of smart individuals, probably like yourself, to vastly overestimate the merits of rationality and concepts that can be limited to the mind of one human. Disregarding the personal attack (I am well aware of downsides, but it's called having a discussion),…

(Use of the pronoun “you” as the impersonal) You’re not curing cystic fibrosis, or any other genetic disease, are you? You’re just stopping disabled people from being born because you’ve decided their lives have no intrinsic value. This can be said to a wide swath of people. Down syndrome people, bipolar people, blue people, people with physical deformities. Why do you get to choose? Have you ever asked one of these…

I would consider cystic fibrosis to be cured when there are no longer any carriers on the planet who could procreate and make another person who will suffer from that terrible affliction.

> Why do you get to choose? Have you ever asked one of these people if they find their lives to be meaningless? How about their parents?

My hope with this technology is that we can give prospective parents the kind of tools that allow them to make reproductive choices that best reflect their desires and hopes and dreams for their children. The question of course is what are they going to do with these tools? Will they eagerly use them or throw them away in disgust?

And then what do we do as a society in response to that?

Is it legal to feed your new born child alcohol? Is it legal for pregnant women to drink alcohol? Is it legal for two cystic fibrosis gene carriers to knowingly produce a child who will suffer from cystic fibrosis? Is it legal for someone to modify their embryo so that it turn into a child that will be a cystic fibrosis carrier? Is it legal for someone to modify their embryo so that it turn into a child that will suffer from cystic fibrosis?

Which of these things should be legal and which shouldn't? How do we enforce them?

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#89

Post by Metacelsus »

015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #15

Embryo selection based on genome sequencing is already being done: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/welcome-polygenically-...

This method is similar, but uses the parents' genomic data to improve predictions of the embryo's genome (since sequencing only a few cells gives low-quality data).

Re: Scientists say they can read nearly the whole genome of an IVF-created embryo

#90

Post by ThrowawayP »

riskQtempAcc wrote: post #53
belval wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A society of 120 IQ adults would probably be an insufferable hell beyond comprehension, considering the track record of intellectual movements and the proclivity of smart individuals, probably like yourself, to vastly overestimate the merits of rationality and concepts that can be limited to the mind of one human. Disregarding the personal attack (I am well aware of downsides, but it's called having a discussion),…

(Use of the pronoun “you” as the impersonal) You’re not curing cystic fibrosis, or any other genetic disease, are you? You’re just stopping disabled people from being born because you’ve decided their lives have no intrinsic value. This can be said to a wide swath of people. Down syndrome people, bipolar people, blue people, people with physical deformities. Why do you get to choose? Have you ever asked one of these…

> "Have you ever asked one of these people if they find their lives to be meaningless?"

I have a couple of disabilities and genetic diseases. They utterly, inarguably, and completely suck.

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