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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

stopgas.org

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#31

Post by UberFly »

tluyben2 wrote: post #12
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

"if you just take some care". Now there's the problem. Some people are unable to suddenly migrate to igloo living.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#32

Post by formerly_proven »

cute_boi wrote: post #22
robert_foss wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are gas reserves in Germany that would last for months (I've seen 6-9month figures). Maybe cut gas purchase rate to 50%. That would give >1 year of runway.

Again, a mass oversimplification of current issue. Gas reserves wont last that much because human hoards if they know government are starting to use reserves. And, when politician act, they should think about future too. And, can they purchase gas at 50%? Are those written in deals?

How do you hoard gas?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#35

Post by cute_boi »

unethical_ban wrote: post #10
axiosgunnar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. (nobody will freeze to death btw) And the reasoning is as follows: The actually morally necessary step is to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine, enforced by force with NATO fighter jets and anti-aircraft systems. People (possibly rightfully) consider that this could lead to a WW3, possibly escalating into the usage of nuclear weapons. So far so good. So the bargain we do is basically "Ukraine, we would do eve…

Agreed. In other words, the EU and US are at war with Russia by all means except direct fire. In a war, citizens will have to make sacrifices. This may include painful economic sacrifices.

Also, making sacrifices may looks good for a few days, but it will sure cause massive problem after that. And, the funny thing is many people indulge in so much luxury, I don't think it is even possible.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#36

Post by zibzab »

f_allwein wrote: post #8
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

The German minister for economics is visiting Qatar and the Emirates to talk about gas deals. He probably hates it, because he is in the Green Party.

Also: Germany and US are in talks to lift the sanctions on Iran.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#37

Post by roter »

tluyben2 wrote: post #12
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

Setting up a tent inside will work in a pinch.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#38

Post by ricardo81 »

Maybe I'm naive but I can see why Western countries tried to get Russia on board the world capitalism gravy train.

Obviously the context has changed massively in the past month, maybe even since 2014.

In any event, less reliance on fossil fuels is a good thing, and at the moment, less reliance on Russian fossil fuels in the EU is probably a good thing.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#39

Post by gruez »

whitepoplar wrote: post #24
tluyben2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

What about frozen pipes?

Keeping a house warmed to 5°C is probably enough to keep the pipes from bursting, but uses much less gas than heating it to 21°C

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#40

Post by wffurr »

macspoofing wrote: post #17

If you double-down on renewables, then you double-down on natural gas. Germany decided to close down their nuclear and coal generation, so the only thing that is left is natural gas for base load (and to augment renewable intermittency problems).

Storage, transmission lines, and over provisioning are also alternatives.

Still blows my mind that Germany and other countries are closing nuclear facilities though.

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