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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

stopgas.org

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#21

Post by paganel »

axiosgunnar wrote: post #6
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

Yes. (nobody will freeze to death btw) And the reasoning is as follows: The actually morally necessary step is to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine, enforced by force with NATO fighter jets and anti-aircraft systems. People (possibly rightfully) consider that this could lead to a WW3, possibly escalating into the usage of nuclear weapons. So far so good. So the bargain we do is basically "Ukraine, we would do eve…

> nobody will freeze to death btw)

Ceaușescu was deposed (and very rapidly shot at the wall) also because of the fact we, Romanians, were freezing in our very homes. That and the food rationing.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#22

Post by cute_boi »

robert_foss wrote: post #7
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

There are gas reserves in Germany that would last for months (I've seen 6-9month figures). Maybe cut gas purchase rate to 50%. That would give >1 year of runway.

Again, a mass oversimplification of current issue.

Gas reserves wont last that much because human hoards if they know government are starting to use reserves. And, when politician act, they should think about future too. And, can they purchase gas at 50%? Are those written in deals?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#23

Post by formerly_proven »

axiosgunnar wrote: post #6
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

Yes. (nobody will freeze to death btw) And the reasoning is as follows: The actually morally necessary step is to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine, enforced by force with NATO fighter jets and anti-aircraft systems. People (possibly rightfully) consider that this could lead to a WW3, possibly escalating into the usage of nuclear weapons. So far so good. So the bargain we do is basically "Ukraine, we would do eve…

> The actually morally necessary step is to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine, enforced by force with NATO fighter jets and anti-aircraft systems.

The "total NFZ over Ukraine" idea will definitely lead to a direct war with Russia because it essentially requires striking AA sites within Russia and Belarus.

The only NFZ scenario that's plausible is a partial NFZ with a sufficiently large buffer zone that it does not overlap with Russian AA on Russian soil. Which puts Kyiv outside the NFZ, btw.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#24

Post by whitepoplar »

tluyben2 wrote: post #12
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

What about frozen pipes?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#25

Post by weberer »

dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

Maybe stop shutting down all their nuclear plants? That would be a good first step.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#26

Post by lifewallet_dev »

tluyben2 wrote: post #12
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

How's the electric heater and the electric blanket work without power?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#27

Post by jaynetics »

FlorianRappl wrote: post #5
secondcoming wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Totally. I was about to post the same. Just looking at it was "fine" (not terrible, not great), but once I went back to HN I felt a flash like a sudden relief on my eyes. The pain was physical...

I'm back at HN for 1 minute now and still see things with a blue tint. I guess these modern OLED are not being user-tested with content like this.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#29

Post by swores »

krona wrote: post #18

I don't know what the contract looks like; doesn't Germany have a legal obligation to pay Russia even if it were to stop LNG imports?

Possibly, but without knowing what the contract looks like there's no reason to assume it doesn't have break clauses like most contracts.
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