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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#831

Post by throwuxiytayq »

wolverine876 wrote: post #594
crackercrews wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A prominent researcher noted that the following question was tested by the ETS but never made it onto the SAT: The actor's bearing on stage seemed ______; her movements were natural and her technique _____ A. unremitting...blasé B. fluid...tentative C. unstudied...contrived D. eclectic...uniform E. grandiose...controlled Apparently 8% more black students answered this question correctly than white students, and it wa…

To be clear, the thesis of the article you quoted from is the following: Every single question carefully preselected to appear on the test favors whites over blacks.

As a non-American, this thesis simply doesn't pass the smell test unless you guys are living in literal KKK land, which - from be outside - doesn't seem to be the case.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#832

Post by Retric »

bachmeier wrote: post #457
Retric wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also go to a school where professors are employed for their ability to teach. Choosing to go to a research institution seems like such an obviously poor choice it’s strange people get suckered into it. But it’s clear education is a low priority for both students and collages.

Not really. Small liberal arts colleges offer the chance to be friends with your professors and small classes. Research universities can offer classes that just aren't going to happen at a SLAC. For example, majors in our department have the option to take graduate courses before they graduate.

Many small to midsized universities with masters programs aren’t research institutions.

Higher education is very competitive with a wide range of business models. One of them is to have tight collaboration with industry to have undergrad and masters programs around Mining, Manufacturing, Medicine, etc focused on employability. Some are focused on night classes for government employees who get an automatic pay raise with a higher degree irrespective of what it’s in. Others are focused on continuing education requirements.

The high prestige research institutions can be a good fit, but aren’t the only option outside of small liberal arts schools.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#833

Post by jliptzin »

College isn’t going anywhere. Where I grew up, rich parents sent their kids to college (in many cases their own alma mater) to get them out of the house, have them find a future spouse, continue playing a sport but at a college level, join a fraternity and/or make new connections. Learning skills for a job or doing research were dead last on the list of priorities for either parent or student. And that’s who it was for in the first place hundreds of years ago - rich kids.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#834

Post by mrfusion »

Anyone explain what patio’s tweet means? What’s pmc?

> I think specifically it is vulnerable to a preference cascade in the PMC, similar to the way that organized religion has also suffered from a preference cascade, and accordingly think a) less likely to be any one catalyst or reason its less relevant and b) can happen quickly.

https://mobile.twitter.com/patio11/status/150560506083470951...

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#835

Post by h2odragon »

Fomite wrote: post #794
beambot wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The professor job is an absurd ask: - Enterprise sales rep with a $500k-$1M annual quota (aka grants). - R&D manager of a team comprised almost entirely of junior employees - Lecturer and administration for teaching. - Administrator & volunteer within the department, chair roles for key academic conferences, and editor on major journals -- all to check the "service" box for tenure. - Because they aren't a proper CEO,…

As has been previously noted, HN seems to be convinced 50% overhead means that 50% of the grant is taken to cover overhead. This is inaccurate. That would be 100% overhead, which is vanishingly rare (I've only encountered one institution above that rate, and they have to maintain research ships). 50% overhead means that the indirect costs of a grant are 50% of the direct costs, i.e. 1/3rd of the total grant. Notably,…

I saw a "private grant" project funded at $500k, the budget that hit floor where work actually happened was $25k. The accountants went to absurd lengths to turn that into "$75k spent" in the year end statements, but it didn't help: the CEO met with the grant givers the next year on the porch of his brand new house, to explain why the actual goals they'd funded hadn't been realized yet. The people doing the work weren't invited; but we heard the story later about how much blame we took for the failure.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#836

Post by timdellinger »

mrfusion wrote: post #834

Anyone explain what patio’s tweet means? What’s pmc? > I think specifically it is vulnerable to a preference cascade in the PMC, similar to the way that organized religion has also suffered from a preference cascade, and accordingly think a) less likely to be any one catalyst or reason its less relevant and b) can happen quickly. https://mobile.twitter.com/patio11/status/150560506083470951...

if you read the thread:

PMC = professional managerial class

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#837

Post by julesqs »

more than ten tweets from Sam in this thread and he doesn't mention that public colleges used to be essentially free, but now cost enough to put students into crippling debt. And the last tweet seems to suggest he thinks the remedy is a for profit alternative. The libertarian privatization gene is strong at YC

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#838

Post by Forgeties79 »

pokepim wrote: post #705
Forgeties79 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so refreshing to see this take. I was on a path to be a history Ph.D candidate - I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. You know how I know that? My own advisor and other department members told me not to get my doctorate (after writing a 60 page thesis mind…

History PhD candidate at Hacker News? I’m really curious, do you like programming/tech as a hobby or did you take another path in the end?

Good question haha I ended up going into film! Just ended 10 years of freelancing as a cam op/editor/producer (we wear a lot of hats these days) and am now an in-house video producer for a tech start up in New Orleans. I also produce podcasts for a few clients on the side and co-host one show I produce.

My work has always had me “tech-adjacent.” Especially the way I operate. It’s kind of hard to explain in solid terms but yeah, a few years ago I found myself here and I’ve liked it ever since. A lot of the stuff is over my head, but that’s where I learn best. You never know where you’re going to find relevant information from seemingly irrelevant posts.

HN is also great for some of my hobbies. I like messing with computers, video games, modding, etc. and love reading about other hobbies and sub cultures. Also get a lot of great tech history content here.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#839

Post by ZeroGravitas »

I listened to a Cory Doctorow podcast about a Terry Pratchett book and was pleased that when asked about how he got into computers he basically said "being born in 1971 with a computer scientist dad really helps".

Who does that send a bad message to and what is that bad message? I can clearly see the good message, but what's the bad one Sam was so keen to avoid?

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#840

Post by giantg2 »

beloch wrote: post #424
imgabe wrote: post #312

Higher education in the US is trying to fulfill so many roles it's unsustainable. - teaching marketable skills so people can get jobs - teaching "how to think" and learning about art and culture - Performing cutting edge research - minor league sports teams The large state schools are trying to fulfill all these conflicting roles. We should probably break them out to separate entities. If you have a physicist who's a…

One thing I was told as a grad student that I've never forgotten is, "Nobody has ever won a Nobel prize for having happy students". At the time, I was struggling to keep up with the marking demands of a new (i.e. This was the first year it was taught) course I was TA'ing. I had around a hundred students and each one was generating 10-20 pages of handwritten lab reports per week. Student writing varied from human type…

"Why is an institution of higher learning so hostile to those who want to put an honest effort into teaching?"

It's all about the money.

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