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Windows needs a change in priorities

den.dev

341–350 of 884 posts

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#341

Like every Windows user, I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with the abusive behavior and dark patterns that have taken over the platform. Like when they started having Skype silently run in the background logged in with the user's Microsoft account without any notice or human intervention, and removed the setting to disable it from launching at startup so that it couldn't be prevented. I had to completely u…

since the announcement that windows 11 will require a microsoft account to install, I've decided that windows 10 is the last version of windows I will use for my personal computers. Your description of microsoft's opinion of their customers ('nobody at microsoft...actually cares') is apt.

I wonder if that will be true of the Enterprise LTSC/LTSB version.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What little new stuff they're putting out (e.g.: Visual Studio Code) is a tyre fire of low quality tools I have no idea why you would say this. VS Code is an incredibly popular and well-liked product.

It is popular because it filled a niche where next to nothing existed, so for people in those fields anything is a step up. For people like me forced to come over from Visual Studio and other editors, it's a huge step down. For example, instead of making improvements to the PowerShell Integrated Scripting Environment (ISE), Microsoft marked it as deprecated and "forced" everyone over to Visual Studio Code, whether th…

I don't think the (not very good) PowerShell extension is a great basis for judging VS Code as a whole.

I've spent most of my career in Visual Studio, I have a great deal of respect for how it just works, nobody's forcing me to leave it and yet... I'm mostly done with it. I'd rather use VS Code for C# development these days; it nails a lot of speed+UX things that Visual Studio doesn't.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody at Microsoft who has decision-making authority actually cares. Acknowledging this is the first step. The second is figuring out what would make them care or how to remove them so someone who does care can take over. That's a much harder thing to do. Realistically Microsoft is in a similar position to the likes of Google and Facebook. They have such an entrenched monopoly, bought through years of ignored warnin…

What is wrong with Linux nowadays? I've used it as my main driver for long enough that I can't see the big problems that are preventing everyone from switching. Like, it seems easier than even WSL to me. Beginner friendly distos seem to have solved the package management problem, and there are adequate desktop environments, office suites, browsers, gaming, and everything else. If a person has good hardware compatibil…

With Linux while sitting idle my laptop burns battery about twice as fast as it does on Windows while I go about my normal workflow. This is a laptop which is certified for both Fedora and Ubuntu.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#344

Well, what are you going to do. Not use Windows? Linux still barely works in 2022 (and if one distro will become really popular, with a big investment of money like Ubuntu did once, they will ad ads, like Ubuntu added Amazon), and MacOS works just on Apple HW (and has ads for Apple services baked-in too, just less obnoxious). You can use ChromeOS! Which is literally ad tech. Pick your poison.

> Linux still barely works in 2022

You're getting a lot of comments about "what do you mean linux barely works" but I switched to Linux full time in the middle of Windows 10 and know exactly what you mean. There's a lot of stuff in Linux that's simply _different_ than Windows, and general infamiliarity means that some things that you know how to do on Windows seems to be impossible on Linux, until you learn how Linux and your particular distro chooses to organize things

But then Windows has the same problems as compared to Linux. I switched to Linux for programming purposes, and there's a lot of things that Linux does that I don't know the easy way to do in Windows[0]. Ultimately both OSes are simply different, and once you get used to one the other starts to seem really weird

That being said, a lot of things in Linux do take a lot more effort than in Windows. Part of it's because Linux is made by programmers for programmers. In MacOS, it either works or it's not possible. In Windows, it might work out of the box, it might take tweaking some registry keys, or it might simply not be a thing you can do (the latter category is fairly rare). In Linux, it might work out of the box, or it might takes you a couple of weeks of chasing down weird issues and compiling random patches from GitHub gists to fix something that really shouldn't be a problem in the first place

[0] For example, "search all files in this directory and its subdirectories for this particular phrase" is `grep -nR phrase` in a Linux terminal. In Windows I think I'd probably open the folder in VS Code and use its search tool. In the Windows case I can then click around to look at the results, or in the Linux case I can pipe it into a file and open it in vim and be able to grep my grep. They might eventually accomplish the same thing, but there's just different ways to do it, and I think which one is better depends heavily on what you prefer and what kind of work you're doing

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#345

Does anyone have any insight into how much benefit MSFT actually gets from these decisions? I understand that the intent is to 'make line go up', but as a simpler user I can't really imagine how telemetry and shilling OneDrive actually leads to meaningful revenue growth. On the other hand, people have been loudly complaining about this since the Windows 7 days, and I imagine that there must be some reason they're dou…

Former MSFT here. People tend to think of Microsoft as one unified company with a unified strategy.

That is not the case, its best thought of as a batch of little companies that band together to create a product. These companies may compete for resources and attention internally and so each one will optimize for their own benefit.

Ads in Edge? That's probably a decision made by some Principal Program Manager with director support on the browser team. The metrics that get tracked for that event are likely how many people click through the ad, rather than the over all impact to the OS.

The OS Core team doesn't have the influence to say no, or stop the browser from showing those ads. I recall internally when I (a paying customer for O365) got a toast (that is what a popup ad is called internally) for O365 and I decided to raise an issue.

Some PM II (mid-level PM was running the campaign, and they were showing metrics that more people signed up for O365 as a result of the campaign, so per them it was good. I was not in that organization and since that director had OKRs that required signups, he told me to go away.

The core OS stripped down has none of these things, but at integrated build, lots of stuff gets put in, and when one team says no to something, often another one will say yes. A good example is that Office has its own update infrastructure and tooling outside of Windows Update. Why? Office wanted to deliver updates on weekly basis and Windows Update said no as that would be too impacting for users, so Office simply said ok and built their own.

These issues rarely if ever get surfaced to an executive, as by the time the metrics get up to a CVP generally they are showing broader trends, like adoption, or game breaking bugs, or as you note, the line going up. Executives do not get these problems (such as inconsistent UI) to them. Those things rarely rise above a Group PM or Engineering Manager level, and those people often do not care about the complaint as for that metric helps them or is part of their strategy.

Windows, the product team cannot do anything about it due to political problems internally at MS and that is not the engineering team behind Window's fault. We (as that was a team I was on) hated when a product team would do something obnoxious and if we could catch it prior to release would often bluntly complain. More often than not we would get told that we were the platform and to stay out of the other teams business.

Anyways, there isn't some mass company dark pattern strategy or other conspiracy, just a bunch of little factions that are all optimizing for their own interests. Office is probably the worst offender of the batch (Skype, Teams, OneDrive) and Windows can do little about it.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like switching to linux when win 7 support ended was the right move. All my games may randomly freeze for no discernible reason, but at least I don't have to deal with that BS.

Really? I made the same move (or at least finished it 100%) at the same time, and that's not a problem I've ever seen. Some (surprisingly few, actually) don't perform well under Wine/Proton, or at all, but random freezing I've never seen. And certainly not all of my games.

I also made the move to 100% Linux rather than move to Windows 8. Initially some games had issues but things gradually improved over time.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no supported GUI framework that isn't a dead-end, formally unsupported, or restricted to "mobile phone app" levels. Win32?

Dead end.

I wouldn't say that, it's basically what keeps Windows alive.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#348

It's mind boggling how user-hostile one can make a piece of "premium" software. You pay 145€ for the Home or 259€ for the Pro Edition and they treat it like it's freeware. I want my computer to support me in achieving what I want to do, but Windows just keeps grabbing attention with intrusive ads and never-ending notifications.

For many, it was a "free upgrade".

I bought 1 pro license for Windows 8. I have used that key ever since. Countless virtual machines and reinstall / hardware upgrade has accepted that key the past 10 years.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#349
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s linux, so one obscure setting in a config file or slightly different hardware can make all the difference. I say this as a linux user since WinXP. The whole OS market is pretty rough right now.

Unless you care about gaming MacOS has been rock solid for at least a decade. For what it is worth I am no mac fanboy, I am typing this to you on a windows 10 computer in my shop(that I use for gaming, among other things).

Yeah, this. Macos is my daily driver and it does a good job of staying out of my way.

I recently got a windows pc just for gaming, and god DAMN it's annoying. Even worse than Vista. Nothing is consistent anymore and everything is always trying to grab my attention for irrelevant shit. What the hell happened :/

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#350
post #24

This article nails a lot of the issues with Windows 11. I bit the bullet and upgraded to Windows 11 late last year thinking it must be an improvement over Windows 10. It turned out to be a big step backwards. - Changing the default browser is a lot of work instead of a single click. - I can't move the task bar to the side, even though almost every monitor nowadays has much more horizontal space than vertical. - All a…

I hate the Windows 11 taskbar and using ExplorerPatcher to revert to Windows 10 style. Thankfully ExplorerPatcher is yet to let me down. If it does happen I will probably switch to Chrome OS Flex.
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