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Windows needs a change in priorities

den.dev

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Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#41

Post by rektide »

segphault wrote: post #22

Like every Windows user, I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with the abusive behavior and dark patterns that have taken over the platform. Like when they started having Skype silently run in the background logged in with the user's Microsoft account without any notice or human intervention, and removed the setting to disable it from launching at startup so that it couldn't be prevented. I had to completely u…

It's such an interesting contrast, for both ends of Microsoft to have reversed so heavily. The core consumer product once fought for betterment and improvement. "Where do you want to go today" was the slogan, suggesting users the helm, piloting their Personal Computer wherever they may. Oh, and it was a complete vision, totalizing. Microsoft did not care at all about open source, webdev, Linux, or broader ecosystem outside their castle.

The extent to which Microsoft has become the inverse in a mere decade of time is mind-boggling. Core products seem to lack the internal political strength to resist becoming naggy, crappy ad-ware, pushing other people's not your own desires. Teams and Office are the new core focus, asking, Where does your company want to go today? Teams has boss-ware pro-harassment features like letting people re-raise notifications at you every 5 minutes. This is expressly hostile anti-personal computing, is deeply mechanized corporate processes applied to people. But in terms of open source, Linux, webdev, the broader world of development & making things happen, Microsoft has completely reversed course, embracing Linux in the data center, releasing vast amounts of their systems as open source, providing & sponsoring copious onramps & cross-platform integrations, doing everything they can to make themselves appealing as a broad partner to the rest of the world, rather than Castle Microsoft, Windowsland.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#42

Post by Silhouette »

segphault wrote: post #22

Like every Windows user, I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with the abusive behavior and dark patterns that have taken over the platform. Like when they started having Skype silently run in the background logged in with the user's Microsoft account without any notice or human intervention, and removed the setting to disable it from launching at startup so that it couldn't be prevented. I had to completely u…

Nobody at Microsoft who has decision-making authority actually cares.

Acknowledging this is the first step. The second is figuring out what would make them care or how to remove them so someone who does care can take over. That's a much harder thing to do.

Realistically Microsoft is in a similar position to the likes of Google and Facebook. They have such an entrenched monopoly, bought through years of ignored warnings and developing monoculture, that they can continue to be successful in a financial sense in spite of their actions rather than because of them.

Until there is a credible challenger for the desktop OS market, a market that is itself evolving as other types of device now appeal to users who might have primarily used a desktop/laptop a few years ago, it is difficult to see how that changes. And the market is probably shrinking for desktop users who aren't in large organisations running "enterprise" software, with casual home users often preferring mobile devices and games consoles to a full PC now (though perhaps less so in light of recent world events and wanting to do more from home). So where is the serious competitor going to come from? I can think of a few at least slightly plausible scenarios but whether most of them would lead to anything less user-hostile than modern Windows is a different question.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#43

Post by lucasyvas »

lordnacho wrote: post #38
lucasyvas wrote: post #29

These problems tend to work themselves out naturally - when you purposefully damage your user experience, you lose the early tech adopters that originally drove your product growth. They instead flock to a competitor that leaves you holding your bag of a shitty product. There are a few companies flirting with this dangerous line right now and it opens them up completely for disruption, which is the opposite of what t…

I wish this was true, but there are a heck of a lot of office workers who have grown up with Windows and can never be trained to use anything else. You'll get a lot of resistance and rationalisation about why they don't think Linux or BSD or whatever isn't as good, and that the training time is better used to just work.

You're not wrong, but office users should be locked to a browser in 2022 anyway. What do they need Windows for? They can all use a web browser.

Microsoft has done an amazing job convincing the office world they need Windows, when they don't need a single feature that it provides in 99% of cases.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#44

Post by banana_giraffe »

segphault wrote: post #22

Like every Windows user, I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with the abusive behavior and dark patterns that have taken over the platform. Like when they started having Skype silently run in the background logged in with the user's Microsoft account without any notice or human intervention, and removed the setting to disable it from launching at startup so that it couldn't be prevented. I had to completely u…

Even stuff like WSL is loosing it's shine now for me. I've personally hit a bug on multiple computers that I can reliably repo a blue screen if I attempt to update a specific package.

The github bug for this issue last had activity from MS 4 months ago.

Kinda makes it hard to take it seriously if such a major blocker is treated with such low priority.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#45

Post by city41 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #31
hughrr wrote: post #3

Windows 11 is the first windows release I haven’t used. It’s also the first windows release I will never use going back to windows 3. I am completely done with it now. The last release which wasn’t a complete punch in the balls was nearly 20 years ago.

>The last release which wasn’t a complete punch in the balls was nearly 20 years ago. Windows 7 was actually pretty bloody good.

Windows 8 came out just about a decade ago. Nearly a decade of Windows pain is still quite unfortunate.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#47

Post by sbierwagen »

sylens wrote: post #8

This post resonates with me a lot, as I share many of the same complaints. The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time), but the level of ads creeping ever higher is alarming. The “accidental” inclusion of an ad in Windows Explorer this week may have tipped their hand - if that’s the direction they are going, I’m moving off the platform entirely.

>The UI inconsistencies are one thing (that you would hope get ironed out over time)

Windows 8 was released ten years ago. All the old-style control panel dialogs are still with us. Regedit will never get ported to the new UI toolkit.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#48

Post by juanani »

lukas099 wrote: post #32
1_player wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make more off you if you have a regular licence and they can sell your data. You wanting to pay extra not to be spied upon is irrelevant, you have no choice in the matter. Very simply, the money lost because some people have left Windows for greener pastures is being offset by the increased revenue.

There must be some amount of money that someone could pay to make it worth it to Microsoft to not show ads or sell data. The problem is, I doubt many people would actually pay that amount.

No post body was provided.

Re: Windows needs a change in priorities

#50

Post by Pasorrijer »

lucasyvas wrote: post #43
lordnacho wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this was true, but there are a heck of a lot of office workers who have grown up with Windows and can never be trained to use anything else. You'll get a lot of resistance and rationalisation about why they don't think Linux or BSD or whatever isn't as good, and that the training time is better used to just work.

You're not wrong, but office users should be locked to a browser in 2022 anyway. What do they need Windows for? They can all use a web browser. Microsoft has done an amazing job convincing the office world they need Windows, when they don't need a single feature that it provides in 99% of cases.

As an officer worker, there are many many things I do that cannot be done in a web browser. File comparison tools, macros and complex excel queries, hard applications for both new and legacy critical programs...

Can this be done on Linux? Frequently. Can it be done in a web browser? Rarely effectively and often not at all.

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