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Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

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Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#51

Post by koenigdavidmj »

fosk wrote: post #30

I understand this may sound inappropriate by some of you. I'm italian, I live in the US, and I'm deeply updated on the political and cultural changes that we're witnessing in Italy. The proposed law we're talking about is basically against any kind of interception (mostly phone calls) legally used by police and public prosecutors to arrest criminals and mafia members. This is scaring the italian government simply bec…

And in that short of time frame, the only ways (generally) to communicate with the host of the material are by email or phone. In either case, there is little way to verify that someone telling you to take it down is the subject of the text.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#52

Post by fennecfoxen »

uomoinpolvere wrote: post #47

Hi I'm italian, and obviously concerned about this issue. I think this could possibly be a game changer for wikipedia. I think the principle of neutrality has been put aside. This seems to me a political move. Please don't misunderstand me: I hate Burlesquoni and this idiotic law. But I always been very doubtful about wikipedia's "neutrality". I hope this move could serve both purposes: increase italians' awareness a…

This is entirely consistent with Wikipedia's existing policies on neutrality, because Wikipedia's neutrality policies apply to its encyclopedic content. The Wikimedia Foundation and participants in its projects have never been constrained by that particular policy, and are free to gleefully offer their opinions and pursue agendas. Indeed, the foundation is dedicated to spreading knowledge, and is opinionated about constraints on that goal.

No one has suggested, or is under the impression, that this notice is the same as an encyclopedia article. The encyclopedia article which ultimately covers this event will remain free* of opinionated statements, and instead describe the law, notable expert comments on its implications, the Wikipedia shutdown, reactions to this shutdown, and the stated motives of various participants, allowing the matter to speak for itself. It does not need to agitate for more freedom or pass judgement on the moral validity of the regime.

(* Wikipedia, being a product of mere mortals, will necessarily be an imperfect representation of neutrality. Nitpicking about this fact too much is minimally productive. People will do what they can.)

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#53

Post by SoftwareMaven »

nefe wrote: post #37
elliottcarlson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that a law like this should exist, but why does it scare you?

because of the situation that day by day is gettin worse for all the italian people... I don't know what people of other states of the world really thinks about our country, I think that to understand all the reasons of what is going on in Italy could be really difficult for people that doesn't lives here... it's like there is no way to escape from this situation, a very big part of the people in italy are old people…

Your English is far superior to my Italian, so no need to apologize.

I had forgotten about Berlusconi's ownership in the media. That does give him a lot of weight to throw around. Is there anything specific about this law (beyond its idiocy!) that frightens you, or is it just Berlusconi's ability to walk all over the Italian people?

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#54

Post by SoftwareMaven »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #52
uomoinpolvere wrote: post #47

Hi I'm italian, and obviously concerned about this issue. I think this could possibly be a game changer for wikipedia. I think the principle of neutrality has been put aside. This seems to me a political move. Please don't misunderstand me: I hate Burlesquoni and this idiotic law. But I always been very doubtful about wikipedia's "neutrality". I hope this move could serve both purposes: increase italians' awareness a…

This is entirely consistent with Wikipedia's existing policies on neutrality, because Wikipedia's neutrality policies apply to its encyclopedic content. The Wikimedia Foundation and participants in its projects have never been constrained by that particular policy, and are free to gleefully offer their opinions and pursue agendas. Indeed, the foundation is dedicated to spreading knowledge, and is opinionated about co…

Just having a (as much as possible) neutral source of information will be incredibly valuable to to the human race. History has always been rewritten by the victors, and that is generally a very bad thing. That can't happen anymore.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#55

Post by ErrantX »

twhaples wrote: post #42
ErrantX wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes; he just posted to that effect on his en.wiki talk page. Disappointing, I feel. What next; English Wikipedia suspended till the US government sort out copyright laws? Worrying precedent!

The US neither has nor is presently debating any copyright laws which impose (or threaten to impose) a debilitating burden on the Wikipedia editing process and its content.

In actual fact; neither is the Italian government.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#56

Post by jarofgreen »

Have you seen Mark Thomas "My life in serious organised crime" (DVD and Radio)? I highly recommend it if you know the UK at all.

In it, he talks about "playing" with the law. There was a law in the UK saying all protests within a zone (roughly a mile of parliament) had to be licensed by the police. So he started playing with the law - never breaking it - but playing with it and generally being a right pain in the ass (at times with several thousand friends) to point out how stupid the law was. In the end, the law was removed (altho some people say what it was replaced with was even worse).

His half hour radio show is on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRGZr2m4r7M (Illegally, I assume - your call)

But anyway, if this law passes play with it to demonstrate how shit it is. For starters, go through every public statement Berlusconi's party has ever issued on-line and complain if possible. Then move on to the output of the Berlusconi owned media.

I don't know Italy well, so I don't know if this would work but certainly something to think about.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#57

Post by tommorris »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #16
ErrantX wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they just shut down wikipedia as a whole then? This is an action purely by the Italian community. The foundation were not even aware of it till a few hours ago :) I see no reason why they should abide by this law It's a protest against an upcoming law that ma lead to Italian editors being fined for not editing Wikipedia to the demands of companies/people.

tomp asked what I think is a crucial question, that you didn't address: what does the language -specific wiki have to do with it? Wouldn't the English-language wiki be subject to the very same law? If so, how does downing the Italian version protect wikipedia?

It's not about protecting Wikipedia: it's about protecting the contributors. The vast majority of contributors to Italian Wikipedia are in Italy - much more so than, say, English, where people are all over the globe.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#58

Post by tommorris »

credo wrote: post #7

This is obviously serious, but the "Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act" title seems to be inaccurate. The wikipedia page talks about a "proposal, which the Italian Parliament is currently debating". It appears that the proposal is not the law (yet)

And the site hasn't been "shut down" permanently. It's a temporary protest.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#59

Post by tommorris »

uomoinpolvere wrote: post #47

Hi I'm italian, and obviously concerned about this issue. I think this could possibly be a game changer for wikipedia. I think the principle of neutrality has been put aside. This seems to me a political move. Please don't misunderstand me: I hate Burlesquoni and this idiotic law. But I always been very doubtful about wikipedia's "neutrality". I hope this move could serve both purposes: increase italians' awareness a…

Encyclopedia content has to be neutral. But as a whole Wikipedia is not "neutral". We're pretty strongly in favour of free licenses (Creative Commons etc.), open source, access to free knowledge and against censorship. Hence why we don't like crappy laws like this.

As Mike Godwin (of Godwin's Law fame) said:

"I'd also like to +1 the thought that the very existence of Wikipedia is not itself NPOV -- it reflects a philosophical and political position, and one that just about all of us here agree with."

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-Octob...

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