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A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

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Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#51

Post by WalterGR »

agumonkey wrote: post #43

Since the war I also noticed a fractal rabbit-hole flavor of the fog of war. You can be argued into oblivion because of past information. While trying to discuss with both camps I see incomplete arguments, referring to previous arguments, that refers to previous arguments. The current conflict being partly due to west/east tensions, birth of nato, cold war.. you can even go back to 1917 according to wikipedia. You ca…

It seems like you’re referring to the origins of the conflict and not what’s happening on the ground right now.

It also seems like you’re not sure who’s to blame for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Is that the case?

I'm not sure it's coordinated fuzzing at the social level.

What would that look like? People on opposite sides making opposing claims?

What about meta-commentary that both sides have equally compelling arguments and that it’s impossible to know which side is right?

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#52

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

kingcharles wrote: post #17
insickness wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

I agree that there's been too much of this lately. The lab leak one I fell for myself, feeling it was too conspiratorial, until Biden popped up on TV and said the US felt like the idea had legs. And then I felt stupid. But it was a good lesson in not drinking the whole cup of Kool-Aid. Although I fell again for the Cosmonaut jumpsuit palaver :(

If you want a real kick in the gut… watch the videos and read the texts from Hunter Biden’s laptop. And know that it came out weeks before the election and literally everyone except the NY Post covered it up (and were censored for it).

I’ve seen more of Hunter Biden than I have ever wanted to see of any man.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#53

Post by leereeves »

Buttons840 wrote: post #28
Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

It is hard to do a search on the topic that isn't overwhelmed with 100 large and small new sites all reporting the same thing. However, thinking critically, what are the odds that these colors just happen to perfectly align with the Ukrainian flag? Also, I've never see any space suite, from any country, in a yellow color. I've at least attempted to find evidence that they've used yellow suits before, but haven't foun…

In Russian cosmonauts: suits are not inspired by Ukrainian flag, the AP reported that the colors were chosen six months ago.

> Cosmonaut Oleg Artemyev said each crew picks the color of the flight suits about six months before launch because they need to be individually sewn. And since all three of them were graduates of Bauman Moscow State Technical University, they chose the colors of their prestigious alma mater.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-mo...

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#54

Post by quinnjh »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #50
quinnjh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, true facts are considered russian propoganda when the press secretary has an agenda of full fiction.

Hunter Biden’s lost laptop confirmed real by the New York Times this week. A video that was on it of him sitting nearly naked in a hotel room, smoking crack rocks, and telling a hooker how his last laptop was stolen by Russians and they were trying to blackmail him - completely skipped over. When asked about the absolutely real laptop, she deflected to say it’s proven that Russians have been spreading misinformation.…

In other news: coke is now pepsi. Citizens are expected to remember this when ordering.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#55

Post by WalterGR »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #52
kingcharles wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there's been too much of this lately. The lab leak one I fell for myself, feeling it was too conspiratorial, until Biden popped up on TV and said the US felt like the idea had legs. And then I felt stupid. But it was a good lesson in not drinking the whole cup of Kool-Aid. Although I fell again for the Cosmonaut jumpsuit palaver :(

If you want a real kick in the gut… watch the videos and read the texts from Hunter Biden’s laptop. And know that it came out weeks before the election and literally everyone except the NY Post covered it up (and were censored for it). I’ve seen more of Hunter Biden than I have ever wanted to see of any man.

How was the NY Post censored?

There was no coverup. Elsewhere in the comments someone linked to what I think is the original NY Times article.

What’s the authenticity verification timeline vs. NY Post’s article(s)?

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#56

Post by CamperBob2 »

leereeves wrote: post #53
Buttons840 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to do a search on the topic that isn't overwhelmed with 100 large and small new sites all reporting the same thing. However, thinking critically, what are the odds that these colors just happen to perfectly align with the Ukrainian flag? Also, I've never see any space suite, from any country, in a yellow color. I've at least attempted to find evidence that they've used yellow suits before, but haven't foun…

In Russian cosmonauts: suits are not inspired by Ukrainian flag , the AP reported that the colors were chosen six months ago. > Cosmonaut Oleg Artemyev said each crew picks the color of the flight suits about six months before launch because they need to be individually sewn. And since all three of them were graduates of Bauman Moscow State Technical University, they chose the colors of their prestigious alma mater.…

LOL, as if they'd admit it!

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#57

Post by gebruikersnaam »

qiskit wrote: post #48
gebruikersnaam wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems like they've been using said suits since at least 2015 First link i could find, from 2021. Clearly the same suits /s. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-564...

The fourth photo captioned "Russian cosmonaut Oleg Artemyev with toys used as indicator of weightlessness by ISS crews." https://web.archive.org/web/20141124185343/https://www.rt.co... Unless the russians hacked the archive or time traveled, it shows that the yellow suit has been used since at least 2014.

In 2021 they were using the blue suit. In 2022, they switched back to the blue/yellow suit. It's just a coincidence that those colors happen to align with the Ukrainian colors, and therefore not newsworthy /s.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#58

Post by gebruikersnaam »

brandonmenc wrote: post #47
ModernMech wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing about Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi and their substacks: they are part of that whole laundering of Russian propaganda. You have to stop and ask yourself why we are talking about biolabs at all in the first place. The reason is that Putin wants to talk about biolabs because a) he needs to bolster his case that Ukrainians are Nazis intent on killing Russians and b) he possibly is prepping for using b…

I knew I shouldn't have linked to Greenwald. Just like, address the direct quote from Nuland. > Now there a may or may not be concerns about biolabs. There are concerns about biolabs. Nuland said exactly that. She even used the word "concern". They are - I'm guessing from the context - unique enough that the Russians don't have labs like this, otherwise who cares if the Russians capture them? Am I just ignorant about…

> Am I just ignorant about non-weapons biolabs here?

Maybe they are working on antidotes to Russian bio weapons. That's research you don't want the Russians to have, and can't be classified as weapons.

Maybe they're researching bird flu on live animals. Prohibiting the Russians to release them could be a goal.

Honestly, there are plenty of non-weapon explanations. You seem to be looking for a justification.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#59

Post by agumonkey »

WalterGR wrote: post #51
agumonkey wrote: post #43

Since the war I also noticed a fractal rabbit-hole flavor of the fog of war. You can be argued into oblivion because of past information. While trying to discuss with both camps I see incomplete arguments, referring to previous arguments, that refers to previous arguments. The current conflict being partly due to west/east tensions, birth of nato, cold war.. you can even go back to 1917 according to wikipedia. You ca…

It seems like you’re referring to the origins of the conflict and not what’s happening on the ground right now. It also seems like you’re not sure who’s to blame for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Is that the case? I'm not sure it's coordinated fuzzing at the social level. What would that look like? People on opposite sides making opposing claims? What about meta-commentary that both sides have equally compelling argu…

No, I'm wondering if internet gave the idea to some state security agency to cook a mind vacuum by showing bits of potential evidence (1991 agreements, past aggressions, shifting blame) so that people will waste time and energy in sterile debate.

I was reading a series on a .ru sites about history of russian computing, whose author claimed a lot of faults with the soviet system that caused a their demise. But in the comments a few russians (or bots ... I don't know anything anymore at that point) were quick to point at that, the author analysis was fragile, giving him other data points about missing events, or developments.

All to say that even when you try to document yourself.. you never know the whole story. Unless maybe you start an absolute quest of truth to cross all data points. And even then, data can still be wrong (people might forget to record stuff, or deliberately ignore some).

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#60

Post by qiskit »

gebruikersnaam wrote: post #57
qiskit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fourth photo captioned "Russian cosmonaut Oleg Artemyev with toys used as indicator of weightlessness by ISS crews." https://web.archive.org/web/20141124185343/https://www.rt.co... Unless the russians hacked the archive or time traveled, it shows that the yellow suit has been used since at least 2014.

In 2021 they were using the blue suit. In 2022, they switched back to the blue/yellow suit. It's just a coincidence that those colors happen to align with the Ukrainian colors, and therefore not newsworthy /s.

> In 2021 they were using the blue suit.

They were different teams of russians. Each team gets to choose their own colors.

The one in 2014 ( "Oleg Artemyev" ) and the one in 2022 ( "Oleg Artemyev" ) are the same person/team? Maybe yellow is mr artemyev's favorite color. But whatever.

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