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Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

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Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#41

Post by fmarz »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #26
nefe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm italian so excuse me for my terrible english. in the next 24hours this proposal law will be approved or not in base of the choose of the parlament, that is very influenced(?) by Berlusconi, for this reason italian writers of wikipedia had written the advice, for make the italian people think about what is happening. I'm so scared.

Not that a law like this should exist, but why does it scare you?

If this law goes into effect, site owners will be required to either remove or post corrections to previously posted informations within 48 hours of receiving a request by an allegedly defamed person or company. Corrections will have to be posted with the same visibility as the offending text, no commentary whatsoever and no regard as to whether the corrected information, or the correction, is true or not.

And without a court order.

Under penalty of a fine of up to € 12000.

Not sure how this will affect WP given that it's all hosted in the U.S. including the italian one (right?), but I believe the italian editors might fear to be held responsible individually.

However it does certanly makes scary running a blog, not to mention an online newspaper, as an italian citizen.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#42

Post by twhaples »

ErrantX wrote: post #21
twhaples wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jimmy Wales just described it (in a Facebook post) as "Wikipedia Italy is on strike against an idiotic proposed law". While Jimmy Wales is no longer synonymous with Wikipedia governance, his implicit endorsement of the strike is definitely Something. Though people are fighting on the mailing list and calling for all the Italian sysops be desysopped.

Yes; he just posted to that effect on his en.wiki talk page. Disappointing, I feel. What next; English Wikipedia suspended till the US government sort out copyright laws? Worrying precedent!

The US neither has nor is presently debating any copyright laws which impose (or threaten to impose) a debilitating burden on the Wikipedia editing process and its content.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#43

Post by Kadin »

FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #39
ErrantX wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communication has been oblique from the Italian community, so I can only give my "best guess" answer here. Practically speaking there is no way this can affect Wikipedia itself, because the servers are in the US. The Italians appear to be claiming that, however, this law would affect the editors directly - leading them to be fined if they write material that someone objects to (and don't fix it within 48 hours). I'm…

Non-US domains have been re-appropriated by the US with the rationale that a .com domain comes under US jurisdiction, and the agency behind it has gone on record explaining as much (apologies for shit reference, this is from memory)[1]. Whether or not that rationale stands or if it's even right, that same logic could be applied to websites holding a .it domain. And since some other countries require some level of inc…

Well, it's certainly not safe for them to continue running under the .it TLD if they're in violation of Italian law, but they could redirect to "it.wikipedia.com" (which, I just checked, actually is the Italian Wikipedia) and thus be within the US domainspace. That seems pretty safe.

And yes, you're correct that the US has asserted control over the generic .com/.org TLDs for historical reasons. They have a "silent .us" appended to them, from a functional standpoint. So they're not safe if you're in violation of US laws, but that doesn't seem to be the situation here.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#44

Post by gasull »

Can't this be solved with Wikipedia (who is hosted outside Italy) not showing the IPs of the wikipedians in Italy?

Also, I think that these laws will move people to the darknets, like Tor. People aren't going to stop blogging, downloading copyrighted stuff, etc. Tor isn't even hard to install or use anymore.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#45

Post by mahyarm »

gasull wrote: post #44

Can't this be solved with Wikipedia (who is hosted outside Italy) not showing the IPs of the wikipedians in Italy? Also, I think that these laws will move people to the darknets, like Tor. People aren't going to stop blogging, downloading copyrighted stuff, etc. Tor isn't even hard to install or use anymore.

Darknets are so slow that it pushes away normal people unless absolutely necessary. It's like walking vs. driving.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#46

Post by gasull »

mahyarm wrote: post #45
gasull wrote: post #44

Can't this be solved with Wikipedia (who is hosted outside Italy) not showing the IPs of the wikipedians in Italy? Also, I think that these laws will move people to the darknets, like Tor. People aren't going to stop blogging, downloading copyrighted stuff, etc. Tor isn't even hard to install or use anymore.

Darknets are so slow that it pushes away normal people unless absolutely necessary. It's like walking vs. driving.

They are slow for some things, but you can perfectly use Tor for blogging, email, IRC, etc. For video or audio is usually slow.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#47

Post by uomoinpolvere »

Hi I'm italian, and obviously concerned about this issue. I think this could possibly be a game changer for wikipedia. I think the principle of neutrality has been put aside. This seems to me a political move. Please don't misunderstand me: I hate Burlesquoni and this idiotic law. But I always been very doubtful about wikipedia's "neutrality". I hope this move could serve both purposes: increase italians' awareness about their kinda-fascist government and make wikipedians think deeper about "neutrality", and its limits.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#49

Post by ars »

tomp wrote: post #6

I don't understand how this is supposed to make sense... Isn't it just as possible for an Italian to be offended by something written on the English wikipedia as it is on the Italian one? Why don't they just shut down wikipedia as a whole then? Also, unless their servers are physically hosted in Italy or they have a number of employees based in Italy, I see no reason why they should abide by this law. Doesn't China l…

It's a protest, not actually an attempt to comply with the law, especially because (unless I'm mistaken) the law hasn't even been passed yet.

Re: Wikipedia shuts down Italian site because of Berlusconi's "Wiretapping Act"

#50

Post by jessriedel »

fosk wrote: post #30

I understand this may sound inappropriate by some of you. I'm italian, I live in the US, and I'm deeply updated on the political and cultural changes that we're witnessing in Italy. The proposed law we're talking about is basically against any kind of interception (mostly phone calls) legally used by police and public prosecutors to arrest criminals and mafia members. This is scaring the italian government simply bec…

I don't think many HN readers need to be convinced that this is probably a bad (potential) law. The real issue is the appropriateness of this action by Italian-language editors as a response to this proposed law.
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