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Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

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Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#61
post #9
post #6

> “Currently, nobody uses time except for maybe Spanner at Google, CockroachDB or someone doing database things,” Rosenblum said. “We believe that there’s a lot more places, especially as more and more time-critical things came up. We can do time sync, since we figured out how to do that pretty well. And so we asked: is this part of a trend where we’re going to start programming these systems differently? And [resear…

None of the services you mentioned need even close to nanosecond precision between servers to operate. Applications that do (other than the ones in the article like Spanner) are concentrated in supercomputing/scientific computing and spend a LOT of money on the problem. So yeah if you are letting your clocks drift by multiple seconds you aren't "using time" in any real sense. If these folks can achieve what they want…

> None of the services you mentioned need even close to nanosecond precision between servers to operate. Applications that do (other than the ones in the article like Spanner) are concentrated in supercomputing/scientific computing and spend a LOT of money on the problem

No, not really. I work in finance (HFT, systematic market making) and this industry heavily relies on high precision clock sync. It's even regulated by law (MiFID II); in practice everyone on the street uses PTP because if you don't know how fast you're really going or where your latency spikes you already lost the race, just don't know about it.

There's a couple of other domains where micro- and nanosecond level time sync is of paramount importance. PTP has become much cheaper over the years especially when you are in a data centre and can get it as a service instead of setting up grand-masters, slaves, GPS antennas, etc.

This statement just reads like badly researched topic on their part.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrony is still NTP. Clockwork is aiming to be far more precise.

It's hard to get much more accurate than Chrony with NTP. Even real-world PTP implementations don't often aim for more accuracy than is possible with Chrony. Because it turns out NTP can be much more accurate than most people realize. From the Chrony FAQ[1]: > When combined with local hardware timestamping, good network switches, and even shorter polling intervals, a sub-microsecond accuracy and stability of a few te…

Could you provide examples of NIC models that can achieve that? So far I've only worked with gear that offers HW timestamps but that feature relies entirely on the availability of PTP signals in the first place.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#63
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Going back to the principles of distributed systems, I’m really wondering how “NTP but machine learning” can be used to minimize the clock skew to hundreds of nanoseconds with software only. The RTT between two servers can vary a lot — and way past the calculated minimum RTT. The figures (eg $21M) and names dropped (eg Stanford) are an appeal to authority, which does make me curious. I’d love to see some papers,…

> Surely $21M doesn’t get dropped with at least someone doing due dill on the tech? Juicero raised $120M.

Juicero only raised $18.5M in their series A.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#65
post #11

There are strong lower bounds in the error of pure-software time synchronization techniques. Is the proposal to incorporate additional hardware, or are they just probabilistically increasing the accuracy? If the latter, what applications can benefit from maybe being better synchronized, not being able to measure how much better the synchronization is, and maybe still having the same worst-case bounds that other algor…

That was my fist thought. The second one is, who has any use for such precision. Other than companies that do hft of course.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#67
post #6

> “Currently, nobody uses time except for maybe Spanner at Google, CockroachDB or someone doing database things,” Rosenblum said. “We believe that there’s a lot more places, especially as more and more time-critical things came up. We can do time sync, since we figured out how to do that pretty well. And so we asked: is this part of a trend where we’re going to start programming these systems differently? And [resear…

Reminds me of early in my career where I encountered a home made time sync system because the creator had never heard of NTP.

20 years ago I went on a ridealong with a bunch of men who were changing the times on the clocks installed in a bunch of church towers.

It was fascinating to get to watch the process. I'd always taken it for granted the big hotels, railway stations, and churches would often have big clocks you could see from a distance and that they'd be self-correcting. But of course a lot of old clocks are purely mechanical so when the time changed an hour forwards/backwards somebody would need to physically change them.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#68
Not trying to be dismissive but honest question: why would machine learning be good in this problem domain? Normally i think of machine learning as a good way to find patterns in high dimensional data, but clock skew doesn't seem like something that is high dimensional.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of early in my career where I encountered a home made time sync system because the creator had never heard of NTP.

20 years ago I went on a ridealong with a bunch of men who were changing the times on the clocks installed in a bunch of church towers. It was fascinating to get to watch the process. I'd always taken it for granted the big hotels, railway stations, and churches would often have big clocks you could see from a distance and that they'd be self-correcting. But of course a lot of old clocks are purely mechanical so when…

Even the clock in my car (2016) doesn't self correct. It goes ahead of about 1 minute every month.

Re: Clockwork raises $21M to keep server clocks in sync

#70
post #53

Why not just synchronize to GPS time? It is pretty straightforward to get hardware timestamp on the 1PPS from the GPS. And then your time is as precise as the GPS clock, which can have a rubidium standard.

Then you need a GPS receiver in each server and a bunch of amps and cables to distribute the signal to every receiver.

1PPS signal distribution is not a complex or remotely difficult problem.
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