Crypto is an unproductive bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#191

Post by voobster » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:07 AM UTC

jmcgough wrote: post #19

One of the biggest drawbacks for blockchain is that transactions can't be revoked after the fact (with the only exception being costly forks of the entire ledger), and there's no additional human oversight (like I'd get when sending a large amount of money through a bank) to protect me. If someone steals my credit card, I have my credit card company to give me some level of protection. They can block transactions if…

>One of the biggest drawbacks for blockchain is that transactions can't be revoked after the fact

Yes that is a major double-edged sword but it is ultimately a feature of blockchains (at least the base layer), not a bug. Everyone who has ever been a victim of fraudulent chargebacks can vouch for that. If you want reversibility you are free to create a smart contract which allows that using its own token. Frankly I wouldn't want to use a blockchain where someone can acquire my personal info and then social engineer their way into stealing my money, as commonly happens within the traditional financial system.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#192

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #175

Nextgrid wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need to control the onramps and offramps. Bitcoin is of no use if you can't exchange it for anything tangible.

That’s only true if you must transact in fiat. It’s mostly true today, may be less true in a future with this kind of restriction on on-ramps and off-ramps. Even so, it’d have to be a global restriction on all exchanges which is more challenging to coordinate.

If your tokens become valueless to other Canadians, other Canadians won't accept them. Non-Canadians who trade with Canadians won't accept them because they can't trade them with Canadians. The value goes to zero by induction.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#193

Post by acjohnson55 » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #86

acjohnson55 wrote: post #39

> Claim 2: Blockchain technology has no non-monetary applications (Confidence: High) I would replace "non-monetery" with "non-financial". I think it's a perfectly reasonable (albeit, imperfect) solution as a ledger and exchange mechanism for new financial assets.

What about just non-repudiation? Proving a logfile, or evidence, etc, is from before a certain date and hasn't been tampered with?

Sure, that makes sense to me. Is that being done to a meaningful extent?

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#194

Post by egfx » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:10 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #167

benreesman wrote: post #43

How many times are we going to have this conversation? Yes crypto is an asset bubble, alongside equities, real estate, precious metals, you name it. Money printer go brrrr, more dollars are chasing the same amount of Apple sells iPhones. Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Proof of work burns a lot of electricity, though this is compli…

Crypto is the evolution of money. It's early days now. The one thing I know is that people are greedy and it's that greed that will make crypto function as part of society. It reminds me of the early days of the personal computer. Early PC's were useless to most people. But they were the greatest tool/toy to some. They couldn't get enough of it. Now it's crypto. It's mainly useless to most but some people can' t get…

Growing organically through collaboration for the sake of it is very different then how computers proliferated. People were exposed to computers in school and work beforehand to them being introduced into every mainstream activity like internet banking and Amazon. Crypto is still stuck in a separate bubble universe where innovation only occurs within.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#195

Post by tomc1985 » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:10 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #167

benreesman wrote: post #43

How many times are we going to have this conversation? Yes crypto is an asset bubble, alongside equities, real estate, precious metals, you name it. Money printer go brrrr, more dollars are chasing the same amount of Apple sells iPhones. Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Proof of work burns a lot of electricity, though this is compli…

Crypto is the evolution of money. It's early days now. The one thing I know is that people are greedy and it's that greed that will make crypto function as part of society. It reminds me of the early days of the personal computer. Early PC's were useless to most people. But they were the greatest tool/toy to some. They couldn't get enough of it. Now it's crypto. It's mainly useless to most but some people can' t get…

Crypto? Or E-Cash?

Electronic money, sure. But from a blockchain?

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#196

Post by jgod » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:11 AM UTC

fmvab wrote: post #32

Another point I’d add: isn’t it telling that we haven’t come up with use cases for crypto that aren’t in some way speculation in the last decade plus?

What other way do you have to do this?

First sentence of the Bitcoin whitepaper: "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution."

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#197

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:12 AM UTC

cf141q5325 wrote: post #169

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion, anarchism is the only form of free government. All laws and regulations necessarily take freedom away. That is the basis of the social contract: you aren’t free to harm others.

>social contract Thats a bad case of framing. Contract implies willing participants and free choice. You have a story which with you justify forcing people around.

[deleted]

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#198

Post by anonporridge » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #178

Nextgrid wrote: post #145

Cryptocurrencies have a valid but very specific use-case: being able to transact in a hostile environment. It does so by making certain trade-offs such as an energy-intensive verification process. This is a very valid use-case when you need to transact against the will of a powerful adversary such as governments. It needs to be there and needs to be protected just like free speech needs to be protected. However, day-…

> transact against the will of a powerful adversary such as governments. I would not personally be quite so confident that a state actor (or a well-capitalized non-state adversary such as a criminal organization) would not have the ability to severely curtail, if not outright eliminate, some other party's ability to execute cryptocurrency transactions. Most of us have no idea what unexploited vulnerabilities these so…

> Compare with the proverbial suitcase full of cash. From a security perspective, it has the interesting property that transactions involving one don't have to be publicly recorded and processed on a public, global, openly accessible peer-to-peer network in order to complete.

Hence why governments around the world are pushing towards cash free societies.

Physical cash is where most illegal (whether you think it's the good illegal or the bad illegal) transactions happen.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#199

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #145

Cryptocurrencies have a valid but very specific use-case: being able to transact in a hostile environment. It does so by making certain trade-offs such as an energy-intensive verification process. This is a very valid use-case when you need to transact against the will of a powerful adversary such as governments. It needs to be there and needs to be protected just like free speech needs to be protected. However, day-…

The government need not even be especially hostile per se, just unwilling or unable to adjudicate that particular transaction. With crypto, the basic operation of the transaction is enforced via a mechanism shared by all users of that cryptocurrency, and a mutually-trusted third-party arbitrator (or even a more complex decision mechanism, defined by a smart contract) can be chosen to address any potential concerns in advance. These are compelling properties even though they're rather costly to ensure when transactions are not centrally managed.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#200

Post by unrealhoang » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 2:14 AM UTC

jhatemyjob wrote: post #75

benreesman wrote: post #43

How many times are we going to have this conversation? Yes crypto is an asset bubble, alongside equities, real estate, precious metals, you name it. Money printer go brrrr, more dollars are chasing the same amount of Apple sells iPhones. Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Proof of work burns a lot of electricity, though this is compli…

Rust is an incredibly difficult language to be productive in and I don't think it will stand the test of time. C has been around for half a century and is a perfectly fine language to use today. Rust is popular because people these days are too risk averse, "unsafe" code is really not that bad.

In a comparison with C? How the hell can you be productive with C without serious years of experience under your belt? A 3-month Rust learner can confidently contribute and deliver working code to a production system.