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Crypto is an unproductive bubble

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Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#161

Post by marginalia_nu »

hedora wrote: post #134
marginalia_nu wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hinges on the contracts actually working as intended, which is something they often do not. Code in general rarely does poorly in that regard. It's really hard to consider every contingency beforehand. Unknown unknowns and all that.

In fairness, they picked JavaScript as the language to write the transactions in. People keep losing money making coding mistakes that even "gcc -Wall -Werror" would refuse to compile. Examples: type errors like L1 vs L2 (whatever that even means, not a crypto person), wrong number of function parameters causing some sort of currying, allowing that massive ETH heist a few weeks back. I'm sure there are hundreds of ot…

Honestly, the language doesn't matter. Most bugs are logic errors or requirements oversights.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#162

Post by cf141q5325 »

babypuncher wrote: post #42
throw0101a wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the biggest drawbacks for blockchain is that transactions can't be revoked after the fact (with the only exception being costly forks of the entire ledger), and there's no additional human oversight (like I'd get when sending a large amount of money through a bank) to protect me. I believe this is viewed as a feature in the blockchain / cryptocurrency world.

They view it as a feature, but for all the reasons this poster pointed out, the rest of us view it as an anti-feature.

Then you are not the target audience. You want additional safety at the cost of giving up your autonomy. Good luck with that

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#163

Post by nl »

exdsq wrote: post #99
nl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm entirely unconvinced that self custody is an advantage for anyone except extremely sophisticated people (sophisticated in both the technical and financial sense). I've been doing blockchain on and off since 2008. Recently I lost a few thousand dollars by sending crypto to a L1 address when I was on a L2. I work on self-soverign identity in my day job. I've written smart contracts. I'm a careful person. Basically…

You've been doing blockchain on-and-off since before the genesis of Bitcoin? What were you doing?

Well, AI mostly. Let's just say I thought it was interesting but not worth pursuing.

I just re-checked. It was actually 2009 sorry.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#164

Post by Tijdreiziger »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #128
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion, anarchism is the only form of free government. All laws and regulations necessarily take freedom away. That is the basis of the social contract: you aren’t free to harm others.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion all laws and regulations are good and freedom does not exist. In reality the definition of "harm" and the laws and regulations that are necessary and desirable to mitigate these harms are very much up for debate. It is nakedly authoritarian for the government to restrict, at the point of a gun, consenting adults from choosing their own method of transaction.

> If you take this argument to its logical conclusion all laws and regulations are good and freedom does not exist.

This doesn’t check out. The existence of good laws doesn’t preclude the existence of (other) bad laws.

> It is nakedly authoritarian for the government to restrict, at the point of a gun, consenting adults from choosing their own method of transaction.

This doesn’t factor in negative externalities (e.g. climate impact).

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#165

Post by bialpio »

mancerayder wrote: post #147
Aunche wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Tech companies return money to their investors via buybacks. Most investors prefer this as they get to choose when they get taxed.

Buybacks? If you're running a company profitably you're supposed to invest your cash to expand the business, not inflate the share price. The share price is supposed to be a reflection of your future profitability, not your future buyback schemes.

If the company does not share its profits in any way with the shareholders, then I agree that it's not different from crypto. The thing is that usually there's an expectation that you will start paying out to your shareholders eventually. There are also companies that already pay out dividends - you can always invest only in those to dodge the "greater fool" problem, at least partially.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#166

Post by aeternum »

callamdelaney wrote: post #150
Nextgrid wrote: post #145

Cryptocurrencies have a valid but very specific use-case: being able to transact in a hostile environment. It does so by making certain trade-offs such as an energy-intensive verification process. This is a very valid use-case when you need to transact against the will of a powerful adversary such as governments. It needs to be there and needs to be protected just like free speech needs to be protected. However, day-…

It’s 2022 - nobody cares about free speech or freedom.

I care

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#167

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

benreesman wrote: post #43

How many times are we going to have this conversation? Yes crypto is an asset bubble, alongside equities, real estate, precious metals, you name it. Money printer go brrrr, more dollars are chasing the same amount of Apple sells iPhones. Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Proof of work burns a lot of electricity, though this is compli…

Crypto is the evolution of money. It's early days now. The one thing I know is that people are greedy and it's that greed that will make crypto function as part of society.

It reminds me of the early days of the personal computer. Early PC's were useless to most people. But they were the greatest tool/toy to some. They couldn't get enough of it. Now it's crypto. It's mainly useless to most but some people can' t get enough of it. Add greed to that and there's no way people won't find a way to reduce its drawbacks and create useful tools.

Crypto's blockchain brought about the technology that lets complete strangers collaborate on a problem and be sure with high certainty that it's trustworthy. People just don't get how mind blowingly important that is.

It's slow in its development but it will have a great impact in our future. Give it time.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#168

Post by AprilArcus »

mancerayder wrote: post #147
Aunche wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Crypto has no intrinsic value, it pays no dividend and doesn’t give you proxy rights, just like all the tech equities. Tech companies return money to their investors via buybacks. Most investors prefer this as they get to choose when they get taxed.

Buybacks? If you're running a company profitably you're supposed to invest your cash to expand the business, not inflate the share price. The share price is supposed to be a reflection of your future profitability, not your future buyback schemes.

So you're opposed to dividends as well?

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#169

Post by cf141q5325 »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #81
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the beauty of the concept of freedom. In a free society, we'd all be able to choose our own poison. Unfortunately, many who view it as an anti-feature seek to prevent those who view it as a feature from making their own choice, either through regulation or outright bans.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion, anarchism is the only form of free government. All laws and regulations necessarily take freedom away. That is the basis of the social contract: you aren’t free to harm others.

>social contract

Thats a bad case of framing. Contract implies willing participants and free choice. You have a story which with you justify forcing people around.

Re: Crypto is an unproductive bubble

#170

Post by tormock »

callamdelaney wrote: post #150
Nextgrid wrote: post #145

Cryptocurrencies have a valid but very specific use-case: being able to transact in a hostile environment. It does so by making certain trade-offs such as an energy-intensive verification process. This is a very valid use-case when you need to transact against the will of a powerful adversary such as governments. It needs to be there and needs to be protected just like free speech needs to be protected. However, day-…

It’s 2022 - nobody cares about free speech or freedom.

you forgot privacy... (i.e.: Monero, Zcash, etc)
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