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Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

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Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#91

Post by rainonmoon »

Yaina wrote: post #28
franga2000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. where did you see that logic? I can't see it in the comment 2. w3schools has surface-level tutorials that teach you the most basic use case of each feature. It's decent for teaching, hence the name. MDN on the other hand is a complete reference - it shows every possible way to use a certain feature in a standardised format. Not as beginner-friendly, but it's what professional web developers need. They are very dif…

MDN also has a bunch of tutorials[1], even for for various frameworks. I think the major difference is that W3Schools neglects to explain important concepts like what semantic html is and just says: "div is a cool box". [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Introduc...

W3Schools' detractors do their credibility no favours with these spurious examples when claiming low quality. Nowhere do they say anything as reductive as "div is a cool box". Here's what they say about divs:

> The tag defines a division or a section in an HTML document.

> The tag is used as a container for HTML elements - which is then styled with CSS or manipulated with JavaScript.

> The tag is easily styled by using the class or id attribute.

That's a succinct, factual description of its definition and basic functions. What's wrong with that?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#92

Post by IshKebab »

tored wrote: post #84
mch82 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Mozilla is competing for the same talent as Google, Microsoft, and Apple. Browsers are the most important software at those companies because most other software runs on them. The Hacker News community doesn’t seem to appreciate the work Mozilla has done to establish web standards. I’ve experienced what it’s like to be stuck with IE6 and IE11 for a decade, holding back web projects at work. Firefox broke t…

The web was actually better in the days of IE6 than today.

Ha can you even see through those rose-smothered spectacles?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#93

Post by wolverine876 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #70
montroser wrote: post #11

I hope this works for them, but it seems a little bit contrived to me. If they just took a fundraising approach like how public radio and Wikipedia do, I would gladly contribute a few times per year when a big banner shows up asking for donations. That would be a nice direct value proposition -- "please contribute so we can keep this awesome resource free and high quality" But paying for customizations? This seems li…

> If they just took a fundraising approach like how public radio and Wikipedia do People notoriously _hate_ both these group's approach to funding.

The evidence says otherwise: They donate a lot to those organizations and use them heavily.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#94

Post by maccard »

montroser wrote: post #11

I hope this works for them, but it seems a little bit contrived to me. If they just took a fundraising approach like how public radio and Wikipedia do, I would gladly contribute a few times per year when a big banner shows up asking for donations. That would be a nice direct value proposition -- "please contribute so we can keep this awesome resource free and high quality" But paying for customizations? This seems li…

> If they just took a fundraising approach like how public radio and Wikipedia do, I would gladly contribute a few times per year when a big banner shows up asking for donations

There's nothing stopping you donating to mozilla [0] right now, however I suspect many people here will reply that that's donating to mozilla, and not to FF/MDN/whatever, but that's no different to donating to wikimedia [1] or the linux foundation [2].

[0] https://donate.mozilla.org/en-GB/ [1] https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give [2] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/donate/

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#95

Post by Eduard »

toastal wrote: post #8

The new MDN design looks snazzy but no longer works in NetSurf. I would hope a resource like this was highly accessible, even to browsers without CSS3 support (isn't this why we have @supports?). It's also furthering a trope of themes being a binary toggle; there are more options than just white and gray--how about OLED black to conserve the least about of power (looks better on my screens too).

Says more about NetSurf than MDN.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#96

Post by Yaina »

rainonmoon wrote: post #91
Yaina wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MDN also has a bunch of tutorials[1], even for for various frameworks. I think the major difference is that W3Schools neglects to explain important concepts like what semantic html is and just says: "div is a cool box". [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Introduc...

W3Schools' detractors do their credibility no favours with these spurious examples when claiming low quality. Nowhere do they say anything as reductive as "div is a cool box". Here's what they say about divs: > The tag defines a division or a section in an HTML document. > The tag is used as a container for HTML elements - which is then styled with CSS or manipulated with JavaScript. > The tag is easily styled by usi…

When comparing the articles for on MDN and W3Schools they look rather similar. Both show that a div can get styled by using class or id. But MDN is a lot more careful in their wording and gives important context.

W3Schools writes: > The tag defines a division or a section in an HTML document. From a semantic perspective this is not true or it's at least misleading. does not define a section or division, that's what or is for.

The MDN article in contrast calls a div a "generic container" and has a disclaimer that says. > The element should be used only when no other semantic element (such as or ) is appropriate.

And while W3Schools does not say "div is a cool box", they instead write "Any sort of content can be put inside the tag!", which...yeah.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#97

Post by wbamberg »

asiachick wrote: post #62
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

I'm often disappointed witu mdn as well. Lots of old examples using dated JavaScript passing on bad practices

I agree. We are always trying to improve this but it's a huge task as MDN is such a big site. If you could please file issues (or PRs :) when you find bad practice examples, it would help.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#98

Post by albedoa »

Eduard wrote: post #95
toastal wrote: post #8

The new MDN design looks snazzy but no longer works in NetSurf. I would hope a resource like this was highly accessible, even to browsers without CSS3 support (isn't this why we have @supports?). It's also furthering a trope of themes being a binary toggle; there are more options than just white and gray--how about OLED black to conserve the least about of power (looks better on my screens too).

Says more about NetSurf than MDN.

Right? What a strange anti-endorsement.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#99

Post by [deleted] »

NavinF wrote: post #10
cies wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of this rant I had a look at the company behind w3shools. This is their about page: https://w3schools.sinsixx.com/about/about_refsnes.asp.htm If you want to communicate "stuck in the 90s", take this as your example! The photo of the "Web Masters", the favicon, the W3C-badges, the gif-badge webhosting ad, fixed-width, the CMS400 ad, the bordered boxes around everything. I had a blast.

Personally I found that page and photo to be adorable and it improved my overall impression of w3shools from “an acceptable target of ridicule” to “aww, they’re trying their best even if they’re a bit clueless”. If HN allowed embedded media, you can bet there would be a headpat animation in this comment.

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#100

Post by rainonmoon »

Yaina wrote: post #96
rainonmoon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

W3Schools' detractors do their credibility no favours with these spurious examples when claiming low quality. Nowhere do they say anything as reductive as "div is a cool box". Here's what they say about divs: > The tag defines a division or a section in an HTML document. > The tag is used as a container for HTML elements - which is then styled with CSS or manipulated with JavaScript. > The tag is easily styled by usi…

When comparing the articles for on MDN and W3Schools they look rather similar. Both show that a div can get styled by using class or id. But MDN is a lot more careful in their wording and gives important context. W3Schools writes: > The tag defines a division or a section in an HTML document. From a semantic perspective this is not true or it's at least misleading. does not define a section or division, that's what o…

That final line comes after the aforementioned explanation, not in place of it as OP suggests.

The point, as many others have offered in this thread but those set on hating W3Schools at all costs are determined to ignore, is that they provide a succinct explanation of web technologies for the relative layman. Its existence doesn't detract from MDN or any other resource, meanwhile it provides a demonstrable service. That seems like an odd crime to warrant strawmen attacks.

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