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US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

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Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#11

Post by scythe »

bell-cot wrote: post #2

Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would. From a company that's raising a whole lotta $$$ from VC's. And (plausibly) school districts will get rid of their old diesel bus fleets when they switch over... Is anyone else suspecting an "of course we'll loose money like crazy, until we hit 'em with the massive price increase" business model? EDIT: Wow, huge response. 3 points to add: - Yes,…

Frankly, if they rip off school districts in order to keep kids from inhaling nitrogen dioxide, that's still a better business model than most of the ones I've heard.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#13

Post by mirntyfirty »

scythe wrote: post #11
bell-cot wrote: post #2

Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would. From a company that's raising a whole lotta $$$ from VC's. And (plausibly) school districts will get rid of their old diesel bus fleets when they switch over... Is anyone else suspecting an "of course we'll loose money like crazy, until we hit 'em with the massive price increase" business model? EDIT: Wow, huge response. 3 points to add: - Yes,…

Frankly, if they rip off school districts in order to keep kids from inhaling nitrogen dioxide, that's still a better business model than most of the ones I've heard.

I think that depends on the extent to which they rip them off.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#14

Post by sanp »

I still don't get that TCO for EV is higher than Diesel.

On the consumer side, let's look at Tesla Model Y vs. Lexus RX 350. I am using "premium" makes on both sides of this equations. If we want to go with a cheaper ICE then it should be compared with a cheaper EV. Idea being, there is a reasonable comparison where EV comes out ahead on TCO.

Cost / mile: $0.04 vs. $0.10 Difference in purchase cost: $55K (base model Lexus) vs $59K (base model). Include $7500 Fed Credit this comes to ~$56K (assuming a 35% marginal tax rate) Average miles per year: 12K. So fuel savings of ~$720 Even assuming a very generous cost of capital even TCO over 2 years beats ICE. That's before maintenance costs (which seem to be lower for EV).

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#15

Post by fasteddie31003 »

I believe batteries and electric motors can replace almost all applications of gas engines. However, diesel engines still are a step too far now IMO. Most people have never operated a diesel engine. Their efficiency is very impressive. My 7,000 lbs truck with a Cummins diesel engine gets better MPGs than my partner's 4,000 lbs Mini Cooper Countryman.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#16

Post by jandrese »

bell-cot wrote: post #2

Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would. From a company that's raising a whole lotta $$$ from VC's. And (plausibly) school districts will get rid of their old diesel bus fleets when they switch over... Is anyone else suspecting an "of course we'll loose money like crazy, until we hit 'em with the massive price increase" business model? EDIT: Wow, huge response. 3 points to add: - Yes,…

The upfront price difference should be offset in the long term by buying cheap electricity instead of expensive diesel.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#17

Post by vardump »

bell-cot wrote: post #2

Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would. From a company that's raising a whole lotta $$$ from VC's. And (plausibly) school districts will get rid of their old diesel bus fleets when they switch over... Is anyone else suspecting an "of course we'll loose money like crazy, until we hit 'em with the massive price increase" business model? EDIT: Wow, huge response. 3 points to add: - Yes,…

> Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would.

What about when you consider total life cycle costs? Diesel fuel costs often many times of cost of the vehicle over its lifespan.

Fuel costs will likely increase quite a bit in the future.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#18

Post by AdamN »

woodruffw wrote: post #9
pengaru wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "subscribed" buses will be privately owned and operated, they'll be increasingly filled with advertising and other predatory bullshit for exploiting the passengers.

I think that's pretty unlikely, at least with schoolbuses. The US has laws around child privacy and advertising that companies easily flaunt online, but are much more difficult to flaunt when your product is a physical bus. OTOH, I would not be surprised to see these buses rusting in a storage lot within a decade because these firms have closed up shop and some random server somewhere is no longer responding to reque…

Captivate screens behind each seat with 'educational' content and pre-roll/banner ads. "We're giving kids extra education through new technology and they also learn about the value of chocolate sugar milk at the same time!"

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#19

Post by Johnny555 »

woodruffw wrote: post #9
pengaru wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "subscribed" buses will be privately owned and operated, they'll be increasingly filled with advertising and other predatory bullshit for exploiting the passengers.

I think that's pretty unlikely, at least with schoolbuses. The US has laws around child privacy and advertising that companies easily flaunt online, but are much more difficult to flaunt when your product is a physical bus. OTOH, I would not be surprised to see these buses rusting in a storage lot within a decade because these firms have closed up shop and some random server somewhere is no longer responding to reque…

The average lifetime of a schoolbus is 10 - 12 years, so if they do manage to keep this service going for a decade, that's pretty good -- in 10 years the schol district would have been ready to refresh their fleet anyway, and hopefully the reason this business can't survive long-term is that electric buses become cheaper and ubiquitous.

Re: US schools can subscribe to an electric bus fleet at lower prices than diesel

#20

Post by loudmax »

sockaddr wrote: post #4
bell-cot wrote: post #2

Hmm...buses that (per the article) cost 2x or 3x what diesel ones would. From a company that's raising a whole lotta $$$ from VC's. And (plausibly) school districts will get rid of their old diesel bus fleets when they switch over... Is anyone else suspecting an "of course we'll loose money like crazy, until we hit 'em with the massive price increase" business model? EDIT: Wow, huge response. 3 points to add: - Yes,…

While not ideal, the alternative is kids continuing to sit in buses that idle for long periods of time slowly leaking diesel exhaust into the cabin area (at least that was the case with the Bluebird models I rode as a kid), that can't be good.

I think it's important to keep the electrification and subscription aspects distinct.

Electrification of bus fleets is an absolute good. Electric buses may cost more in the short run, but for the sake of children's health, not to mention the world they live in, school districts should be dumping diesel in favor of electric as soon as they can afford to do so. As taxpayers we should be ready to foot the bill.

There are real concerns with privatization of school bus fleets though. Safety obviously, but also advertising and marketing to children as other posters have pointed out. If a company offered school districts a subscription model with diesel buses we'd be rightfully suspicious of where this could lead. We should maintain these suspicions even as we encourage phasing out diesel fleets in favor of electric.

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