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How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

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181–190 of 684 posts

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#181
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not a liberal if you're casually violating fair housing law :) Everyone wants to call themselves a liberal or progressive nowadays, it's bizarre. These things are about actions, not self-assigned labels.

Is visa status a protected class for rentals in CA/Berkley?

Answering my own question- it appears that yes, it is- https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/Housing/#whoBody

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#182

The scary thing is that it's easy to see how something how like this could drive a market boom and bust cycle. I'm imagining a scenario where two iBuyer companies try to outbid each other algorithmically, driving the prices further and further out of reach of people who are looking for a primary home. Tangentially related, I talked to a friend who works on geospatial data for one of the big vacation rental companies,…

This has perplexed me as well. Here in the UK, the top 1% of incomes is £175K. Assuming the bank lets you borrow 5x, and you're married to someone with a more middling income, you can borrow ~£1M. Yet there's a ring around London where it's hard to see any family homes that are under £1M. I mean sure maybe they're sitting on equity or mom and dad are contributing, but by my estimation there are a huge number of peopl…

> there's a ring around London where it's hard to see any family homes that are under £1M

If you mean the Stockbroker Belt [1], well, yes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockbroker_Belt

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#183
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can blame Airbnb, Zillow or whoever else, but the truth is that speculation in real estate and vacation towns have both been a thing for a very long time. If the population rises and we refuse to build more houses, the existing ones will get more expensive no matter what. The solution is out there in front of us but everyone prefers to dance around it.

There's even lower hanging fruit than that. I have a 6 bedroom house, but local regulations state that I am not allowed to live with more than 2 people unrelated to me. Plenty of parking, tons of people looking for housing, but legally I am forced to keep 3 bedrooms empty.

Why do you have a 6 bedroom house if you only need 3 bedrooms?

It sounds like you're annoyed that you can't turn a profit on your 3 bedrooms and the housing problem is really a tangential concern.

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest to God, the founders of Airbnb should have been sent to prison. That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Now if you're my buddy, and you want to slide me $200 to crash at my house for a week that's fine, but if you add technology to it, it ends up destroying entire neighborhoods. Ride-sharing is a bit different, since I'd argue the reduction in d…

> That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Why? It's your home, you can do anything in it. Why should you need a license to rent out your own home for a few days? Does it physically destroy neighborhoods or just your perception of it? If so, why should anyone care?

> If so, why should anyone care?

It's not about 'why' care, it's about the fact that they already do care enough to have caused regulation.

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's honestly quite scary how I'm in the top 2% of income earners in my generation and yet I could barely afford to buy a small place in a semi-desirable area. I can easily see myself not being able to compete in algorithmically dominated markets flush with venture cash in the future and I earn more than just about everybody I know today. A thought exercise: suppose that no new houses are ever built and that housin…

> > It's honestly quite scary how I'm in the top 2% of income earners in my generation and yet I could barely afford to buy a small place > I live in Los Angeles, where a "small place in semi-desirable area" gets listed for 1.5M and goes for nearly 2M. I'm somewhere in the top 5% of earners in California, but that $2M 1950s tract housing would be >50% of my post-tax income. I think the obvious answer here is that peo…

> Do you really think a Senior Software Engineer at Microsoft has $2.5M in cash sitting in his checking account to buy a home? No way.

It's not common, but definitely possible. E.g. if you were part of an acquihire. Or just got lucky somehow. I know a senior with a crypto portfolio worth more than that because he dropped a few thousand into bitcoin in the very early days.

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest to God, the founders of Airbnb should have been sent to prison. That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Now if you're my buddy, and you want to slide me $200 to crash at my house for a week that's fine, but if you add technology to it, it ends up destroying entire neighborhoods. Ride-sharing is a bit different, since I'd argue the reduction in d…

> That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Why? It's your home, you can do anything in it. Why should you need a license to rent out your own home for a few days? Does it physically destroy neighborhoods or just your perception of it? If so, why should anyone care?

>Does it physically destroy neighborhoods or just your perception of it?

Yes, it does. People buy homes for more than financial reasons. Living in a community of homeowners with neighbors you've known for years is a completely different experience than living in a revolving door community of renters. There's been a whole decade of news reports about Airbnb ruining neighborhoods and condo buildings, to the point that it's not even worth citing a particular incident.

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest to God, the founders of Airbnb should have been sent to prison. That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Now if you're my buddy, and you want to slide me $200 to crash at my house for a week that's fine, but if you add technology to it, it ends up destroying entire neighborhoods. Ride-sharing is a bit different, since I'd argue the reduction in d…

> That would have fixed much of this, it's point blank illegal to run a bed and breakfast out of your home. Why? It's your home, you can do anything in it. Why should you need a license to rent out your own home for a few days? Does it physically destroy neighborhoods or just your perception of it? If so, why should anyone care?

I think it is fine to argue that the current rules about what you can and cannot do within a particular zoning classification are wrong. In the sense that so much US zoning eliminates retail from residential, I would make that argument myself.

However, there are actual rules, the rules exist for a mixture of good and bad reasons, and it has never been true to say "It's your home, you can do anything in it.".

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#188
post #40

The scary thing is that it's easy to see how something how like this could drive a market boom and bust cycle. I'm imagining a scenario where two iBuyer companies try to outbid each other algorithmically, driving the prices further and further out of reach of people who are looking for a primary home. Tangentially related, I talked to a friend who works on geospatial data for one of the big vacation rental companies,…

One can blame Airbnb, Zillow or whoever else, but the truth is that speculation in real estate and vacation towns have both been a thing for a very long time. If the population rises and we refuse to build more houses, the existing ones will get more expensive no matter what. The solution is out there in front of us but everyone prefers to dance around it.

> If the population rises and we refuse to build more houses

Building more houses is generally good too, but it's a bit of a cop-out to blame the whole situation on that. Totally independent of supply concerns, I would argue that it's not great that in so many areas the value of homes seems to be almost entirely divorced from the fact that people need homes to live in.

Imagine if a bunch of very wealthy people just decided to start collecting medicine, not to use as medicine, but to just collect and perhaps sell later at a higher price. Is that within their legal rights? Sure, it seems like it. Would producing more medicine be a good thing? Yeah, sure, more medicine is probably generally a good thing. But is it still really crappy that people's habits for collecting medicine are driving up the cost of medicine for people who want to take the darn medicine? Yeah, it's crappy.

Re: How Zillow's homebuying scheme lost $881M

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suppose that no new houses are ever built Why would you suppose that? I don't really see what you're getting at, that's a very unintuitive assumption; it shouldn't happen if market forces are allowed to run their course.

New afordable housing isn't built. Everything is "luxury" so that developers can maximize profit. When someone tries to build affordable duplexes the NIMBYs say not in my town.

Isn’t luxury the only thing that’s even allowed to be built in most NIMBY cities? Try building large “market-rate” housing in Palo Alto and see what happens (even within the confines of their already ridiculous zoning laws).
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