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AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

tellerreport.com

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Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#81

Post by nerdponx »

fatnoah wrote: post #30
DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

It's a weird and sad future in which we get voice-activated faucets before we get foot-pedal-operated faucets.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#82

Post by switchbak »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

Just wait until these long range, low power mesh networks are the norm. Then they'll be networked and auto updating (and spying!) without your knowledge or consent!

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#83

Post by alkonaut »

api wrote: post #12

Any kind of Internet connectivity on an appliance is a strong anti-feature for me. I can't think of a single reason I would want it, and it seems like it would either be a privacy invasion or a source of headaches. Unfortunately I think for the average customer this is a "blue crystals" feature, something they don't really need and probably don't use much but that makes the device feel new and cool. Mass market produ…

It should at least be considered a drawback, so that the benefits it offers must outweigh it. For a microwave, the drawbacks is (obviously) greater than whatever benefit it can offer.

For a heat pump or something that can actually make good use of the internet (remote control, looking at electricity prices, planning with weather information) the cost/benefit analysis is different.

I'd hate to have an internet connected microwave but I'd love to have an internet connected heat pump (Or ideally a heat pump with a local REST api so I can just tell it myself)

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#84

Post by paulgerhardt »

jacquesm wrote: post #70
paulgerhardt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a dozen or more devices that can burn down my house (or kill me in other interesting ways) connected to the internet because I am confident in the precautions taken by the engineers who designed them and mitigating the “hacker” threat model is mostly already addressed by precautions already taken to mitigate failing (“rogue”) controller boards present in their non-internet connected counterparts through 30+ ye…

Compared to 'the internet' electricity is pretty predictable.

My experience is with making a few consumer electronics products and running through the UL/CE gauntlet. In those cases, the ‘materiel’ required to make sure you don’t shock your users to death is a bigger lift than what happens if one of nine I/O lines are held high or low or fuzzed in interesting ways when there are secondary layers of fusing built in.

From what I recall your background was in industrial machines and I concede the point that if sent an inappropriate signal, disaster would ensue. I don’t connect my CNC machines to my network but I meant to scope this discussion to home goods which are meant to have a lot of protections built in - specifically against the “user” - which compared to “internet” or “electricity” will always trump unpredictableness :-)

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#85

Post by djbusby »

jaywalk wrote: post #71
RobertMiller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can't be turned on remotely unless I press a button on the oven itself, and even then it'll only allow it once. That it's possible at all suggests that the oven is only one bad firmware update away from turning itself on when you don't intend it. Conceivably such a limitation could be built into the hardware; e.g. with a button that works like a circuit breaker. Set to break after the oven starts once and requir…

I agree with you. But it's just the oven, so the risk is just wasting some gas and heating my house up a little until I notice. The cooktop burners can't be operated remotely, so there's no risk of unintended open flames. Also, because of the crappy WiFi it's almost never connected anyway.

Jajaja! My WiFi oven can't burn my house down cause it's WiFi code is worse than it's heating-element code.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#86

Post by sp332 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #65
sp332 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To preheat before you get home, or to make sure the oven is off after you've left. https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00049148/ With AEG's app, you can find a recipe and the app will automatically set the temperature and cooking time for you.

Hmmm, I've never considered pre-heating a microwave; I thought it wasn't necessary, because the food would be heated using - um - microwaves. I must have been missing a trick.

Yes this is a "combi microwave". It is also an oven.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#87

Post by kop316 »

fatnoah wrote: post #30
DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

I'm starting a kitchen upgrade, and the number of "connected" kitchen appliances is astonishing. I don't need my faucet to have Alexa, I don't want to read news on my refrigerator, and I don't want an app for my oven. I'm not aware of any companies keeping servers running for a product that matches the life expectancy of a kitchen appliance, nor do I want an AWS outage to keep me from making nachos.

At first I thought you were exaggerating with the faucet with Alexa:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Smart-Home-Smart-Kitchen-Smart-F...

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#88

Post by martopix »

ben_w wrote: post #42
sofixa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for security updates of course! As to why it needs security updates, it's because it's connected(able) to the internet.

"The kitchen of the future will only employ one man and one dog: the man’s job is to feed the dog, the dog’s job is to bite the man if he tries to touch anything”.

Why do you need the man to feed the dog, you can have a timed dog food distributor.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#89

Post by gpvos »

Nextgrid wrote: post #77
jaywalk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably more about cost savings than anything else. Why add a USB port and the associated functionality required to do manual updates when it's got a fantastic remote update capability?

It doesn't need extra hardware. Most routers have some rudimentary TFTP boot mode that can be accessed by powering it up while holding a certain button. The device already has Wi-Fi, so the same mechanism can be used - if powered up in recovery mode, it'll scan for a specific SSID and then TFTP boot from a specific IP on there.

The percentage of microwave users that could perform such a trick rounds down to zero.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#90

Post by amelius »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

I refuse to own an oven that is internet connected. If my oven has enough of a computer to have a firmware that can be updated remotely, it is too dangerous to own.

I refuse to live in a country where mass consumer products can enter the market before being okayed by consumer organizations.
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