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Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

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Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#41

Post by archerx »

franga2000 wrote: post #27
archerx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

1. where did you see that logic? I can't see it in the comment 2. w3schools has surface-level tutorials that teach you the most basic use case of each feature. It's decent for teaching, hence the name. MDN on the other hand is a complete reference - it shows every possible way to use a certain feature in a standardised format. Not as beginner-friendly, but it's what professional web developers need. They are very dif…

I see it as the opposite, if I'm going to learn a new feature, mdn would be the place to go to get a deep dive of what it does but once you understand it, w3schools is the place to go for a quick syntax and argument reference.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#42

Post by robin_reala »

chrisweekly wrote: post #38
archerx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

As someone who's done webdev for a living since 1998, I share the OP's distaste for w3schools -- they truly earned their notoriety as a low-quality, spammy, SEO-hacking parasite. It was so bad it inspired a large group of some of the biggest names in the field to push back with a site called "w3fools" that tried to set the record straight and steer the hapless masses away from w3schools. See eg https://web.archive.or…

Worth pinging a few of the original signatories on Twitter to get their take?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#43

Post by vbezhenar »

themihai wrote: post #37
IshKebab wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because donations will never even remotely cover Mozilla's costs. They get something like $3m in donations. Wikipedia gets something like $120m. Mozilla's costs and Google income are like $400m.

Is a browser so expensive to maintain? $400m/year?

Mozilla management is so expensive to maintain.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#44

Post by [deleted] »

chrisweekly wrote: post #38
archerx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

As someone who's done webdev for a living since 1998, I share the OP's distaste for w3schools -- they truly earned their notoriety as a low-quality, spammy, SEO-hacking parasite. It was so bad it inspired a large group of some of the biggest names in the field to push back with a site called "w3fools" that tried to set the record straight and steer the hapless masses away from w3schools. See eg https://web.archive.or…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#45

Post by RobertMiller »

themihai wrote: post #37
IshKebab wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because donations will never even remotely cover Mozilla's costs. They get something like $3m in donations. Wikipedia gets something like $120m. Mozilla's costs and Google income are like $400m.

Is a browser so expensive to maintain? $400m/year?

It's worse than this. While money does not flow from Mozilla Foundation to Mozilla Corporation, the opposite is not true. A lot of the money that Mozilla Corporation manages to make is not spent on Firefox development, but is instead paid to Mozilla Foundation, ostensibly to license the Mozilla brand. The Foundation is actively holding Firefox back with this organizational scheme.

> For 2019, the Mozilla Foundation received $15,858,258 per a trademark license agreement with Mozilla Corporation, allowing us to reinvest earnings from our products into advocacy and grant making that grow the internet health movement.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#46

Post by ydlr »

I think Mozilla's structure of having a for-profit owned by a nonprofit has a lot of potential. The problem is that the products they are trying to make money from are also the primary vehicles for accomplishing their nonprofit mission.

A better example is Newman's Own. Their mission is not to make the world's best tomato sauce. That is just how it makes money.

Mozilla needs to find its tomato sauce. Then Firefox and MDN can become the recipient of funds, not the source.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#47

Post by jraph »

idoubtit wrote: post #31
jug wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that pages about web development should themselves not depend on CSS3 support at the renderer because it's a huge step forward from CSS2 and the documentation itself is just simple documents rather than complex layouts. This has the air of web designers not having even considered this aspect and just went with modern web standards as usual. So an issue should maybe be raised about this. As I browse the site,…

Instead of creating a new tool to convert MDN's content into HTML, it would probably be easier to modify the official tool, Yari, in order to produce web page with more compatible (and faster) CSS & JS. https://github.com/mdn/yari But I don't think it would be useful unless MDN merges in the changes. My daily web browser struggles with the new MDN rendering unless JS is disabled. So I've lost a few features since the…

Maybe you could setup a mdn search keyword in your browser (maybe even !mdn would be possible?) to minimize your habit change?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#49

Post by dzikimarian »

IshKebab wrote: post #35
_m4ua wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't even a way to donate. All "mozilla" donations go to the foundation and their social justice causes, not useful things like MSN and Firefox.

That's because donations will never even remotely cover Mozilla's costs. They get something like $3m in donations. Wikipedia gets something like $120m. Mozilla's costs and Google income are like $400m.

TBH they they could do a little more in regards of donating. For eg. I can very easily ask my government to donate 1% of my taxes to Wikimedia foundation, but Mozilla is not registered as such in my country.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#50

Post by maxloh »

I like MDN. But Mozilla's staff didn't solve the code sample licensing issue[0] a year after the MDN's transaction to Yari (the new platform).

For now, it is impossible to tell whether a given code snippet is licensed under CC0 or MIT.

Good luck using code from MDN.

[0]: https://github.com/mdn/content/discussions/5901

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