It occurs to me that optimal keyboard layouts depend primarily on use cases: by human language, by activity, and so on. I might well imagine that a Perl-optimized keyboard layout would look different than one intended for writing fiction, and so on.
An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
81–90 of 147 posts
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#82fwiw, running the same evolutionary algorithm on Julia, Python and C++ files returned this layout ` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = c l r b z ; q u d j [ ] \ s h n t , . a e o i ' \n f m v w ? y g x k p 11 7 13 14 13 13 9 19 , 45 | 55 Symmetry: 61 Evenness: 81 Overheads: F:37%, H:12%, S:9%
Now do Perl scripts. (:
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#83The problem with any non-QWERTY keyboard layout is that all app and web shortcuts go out the window. You want to save an image for the web? Good luck growing a third hand. Want to open the quick menu on a site using ⌘+/, but your / key is only accessible using the shift key? Tough luck. Need to change the font size in your editor? Just navigate down these 3 easy sub-menus, because the keyboard shortcut for that is al…
Yeah out of the box they are poof but I wonder if people would be comfortable with just accessing some of these useful shortcuts in the same positions in another layer?
I experiment around with my layouts and keyboards a little bit so I am probably out of touch.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
About 12 years ago, I quit qwerty cold turkey on an unlabeled das keyboard ultimate for Dvorak and my typing speeds went from about 102wpm to 5. I printed out a label of the layout and put it on a wall a good distance from my chair and referenced it to find the correct keys. It took me about 2 weeks to get back up to 40wpm and another year later I was typing at my normal speed. I still think it’s one of the best layo…
That approximately describes my switch to Dvorak. It is so important to leave the keycaps qwerty or blank, and have the Dvorak reference strictly external.
I'm in the same boat. Learned Dvorak on a blank keyboard. Even when I was still building muscle memory and typing slow, it was and still is more comfortable than QWERTY.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#85Dvorak touchtyper since 2010 is here ^_^ I appreciate any attempts to make August Dvorak's work even better. For example, that claster of wovels is not AI's work but Dvorak's. BTW there is one strange claim from my POW: > QWERTY - 0% (baseline) > Dvorak - +77% > Colemak - +84% > Workman - +101% > Halmak - +134% If author considers Colemak and Workman more efficient than Dvorak, I should not even to give this layout a…
You make a good point about finger strength, not something I had considered. Another issue is the dataset used for evaluation here. If they used a sample of the regular English language, that's likely to differ from the sort of typing that a programmer does, not just in punctuation, or it's likely to differ for those who type other languages. It's a shame the cost of learning a new layout is so high, because there's…
> It's a shame the cost of learning a new layout is so high
Haven't you mean the cost of _creation_ a new layout? Learning is super easy for any non-QWERTY person because since you have managed to realize that default layout is bad - you have all freedoms possible to fix this obstruction. Sometimes the number of freedoms is too high, that's why it is so hard to create a layout which will be really used by anybody. What about learning a new layout per se - the cost of getting rid of QWERTY in my opinion is doubling for every year of touchtyping QWERTY or QWERTY-like layouts. Layout is something that you will be carrying in all your muscles for the rest of your life but after your first switch you will not consider switching layout that hard especially if you really love your new one.
> Another issue is the dataset used for evaluation here.
A beauty of a layout is kind of a beauty of a girl - it must be measured by heart, not by numbers. Layout is something that you will be carrying in all your muscles for the rest of your life. I do not respect any attempts to fix QWERTY (like Colemak and Workman) because QWERTY is so broken that there are no reasons to fix it (coining more and more of fancy metrics usually) except if QWERTY sits too deep in your muscles. And there is not much difference in using three rows of symbols when somebody either programs or writes a letter to his lovely ones.
> You make a good point about finger strength, not something I had considered.
Maybe yes but maybe I haven't disclose my opinion fully. I used to touchtype Dvorak way before some musical instruments gave additional strength for my fingers and I do not remember any desire to rearrange any letters.
There are lots researches going on for enhancing QWERTY, based on rearranging as few keys as possible. They usually are based on: the datasets, somebody's opinions about finger strength, some ideas of alternation of fingers or hands, now AI has joined to the army of fancy metrics. I do not respect any attempts to fix QWERTY (like Colemak and Workman) because QWERTY is so broken that there is no good reason to fix it, except of for users who have QWERTY sitting too deep in their muscle level.
The Halmak's idea of punctuation in the middle of the board is really interesting, I haven't see this idea on any layout I have tried. But my message is that layouts must be created not by complicated calculation's call but by heart's call.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#86Interesting that ETAOIN SHRDLU seems to be on highly symmetric positions.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
About 12 years ago, I quit qwerty cold turkey on an unlabeled das keyboard ultimate for Dvorak and my typing speeds went from about 102wpm to 5. I printed out a label of the layout and put it on a wall a good distance from my chair and referenced it to find the correct keys. It took me about 2 weeks to get back up to 40wpm and another year later I was typing at my normal speed. I still think it’s one of the best layo…
That approximately describes my switch to Dvorak. It is so important to leave the keycaps qwerty or blank, and have the Dvorak reference strictly external.
I also used the external reference while learning (taped a printed-out layout to the top of my screen).
One regret: like the parent commenter, I stopped drilling early when "fast enough". Then I asymptoted to comparable speed to my qwerty days (and greater comfort), but worse accuracy. Years later some further drilling was worthwhile to end up actually better at typing than in qwerty.
Overall I'd say the Dvorak/qwerty diff was enough to justify choosing Dvorak when you start to learn touch typing, but probably not for switching later.
The increment of improvement from Dvorak to a newer layout seems considerably smaller still, and I'd weigh that against universality of support.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#88people are saying it takes a year to reach proficiency with a new layout. tbh that seems like a really long time for a for someone who types for a living. + 10-15 wpm isnt worth it for me
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#89Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
To give my personal impression, as someone who switched to neo [0] about 2 years ago. To be fair I only had about 20 years of QWERTZ & QWERTY experience before that. 1. For me it took about a year or so until I surpassed my QWERTY typing speed with certainty. I typed about 80-90 wpm on QWERTY and currently type at about 90-100 wpm on neo. 2. Yes, it's not a big issue. I rarely type QWERTY nowadays, but whenever I hav…
As someone who switched to Dvorak 6 years ago, I understand there is potential for a lot to be gained by switching to non-QWERTY layouts. I do wonder about what I should try next. Neo is one that looks especially interesting to me.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#90Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
About 12 years ago, I quit qwerty cold turkey on an unlabeled das keyboard ultimate for Dvorak and my typing speeds went from about 102wpm to 5. I printed out a label of the layout and put it on a wall a good distance from my chair and referenced it to find the correct keys. It took me about 2 weeks to get back up to 40wpm and another year later I was typing at my normal speed. I still think it’s one of the best layo…
> Most modern games can detect alternate layouts and remap keys automatically, and for those that can’t it’s not difficult to remap them.
I have a wildly different experience, most games never manage to detect my AZERTY keyboard, and some don’t even let me remap easily (case in point, stranded deep does not even let you remap or see controls during the tutorial, which was a truly awful experience). Nowadays I force qwerty during games to avoid issues caused by developers not understanding that there are different layouts out there.