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I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

paranoidvalueinvestor.substack.com

31–40 of 286 posts

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#31

Buying value stocks may be better than buying an index, but identifying value stocks is hard and time consuming. Wouldn't the average investor be better off buying index funds, since the average investor does not have the time, inclination, or training to find value stocks?

Yes, agreed. This is comparing Apples and Oranges.

Also, keep in mind: If you had invested all your money into a NASDAQ ETF at the peak of the Dotcom bubble 20 years ago, you would have earned about 300% in returns by now.

I think it is easy to dismiss indices in a bear situation. When in doubt, zoom out and relax.

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#32

There's something really insidious about tying 401ks and other retirement accounts to the stock market. People including myself end up with a large portion of our assets essentially gambled on the future success of US corporations. It gives some false legitimacy to this idea that our media is constantly pushing, that if the stock market is going well then regular Americans are doing well.

I can understand that feeling but what offers average Americans a better option for growing and securing wealth than investing (most) savings in the stock market?

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#34
> In summary, what I’m arguing is that the risks to buying an entire index are underappreciated, and that is possible to look at the financials of a company and see if they’re reasonably priced. I personally sleep better with a portfolio of companies that I think are intrinsically worth what I paid for them.

Yes, you and every other analyst out there. I'm curious to why the author thinks they have some extra informational edge over everyone else with a spreadsheet that allows him to find deals that seem to be invisible to everyone. Hedge funds are using real-time satellite imagery to try to get an edge over other market participants:

* https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/stock-v...

When the author does a buy or sell on a particular stock, why does he think he's getting the better end of the transaction?

Further the author brings up Graham and Dodd, which is now called value investing. While Fama and French show that there's still some premium to it (as mentioned in the article), in his last published interview Graham himself said:

>> In selecting the common stock portfolio, do you advise careful study of and selectivity among different issues?

> In general, no. I am no longer an advocate of elaborate techniques of security analysis in order to find superior value opportunities. This was a rewarding activity, say, 40 years ago, when our textbook "Graham and Dodd" was first published; but the situation has changed a great deal since then. In the old days any well-trained security analyst could do a good professional job of selecting undervalued issues through detailed studies; but in the light of the enormous amount of research now being carried on, I doubt whether in most cases such extensive efforts will generate sufficiently superior selections to justify their cost. To that very limited extent I'm on the side of the "efficient market" school of thought now generally accepted by the professors.

* http://www.grahamanddoddsville.net/wordpress/Files/Gurus/Ben...

That was in 1976.

I ran across an interesting observation by Nick Maggiulli about investing feedback loops:

> For example, any competent basketball coach could tell you whether someone was skilled at shooting within the course of 10 minutes. Yes, it’s possible to get lucky and make a bunch of shots early on, but eventually they will trend toward their actual shooting percentage. The same is true in a technical field like computer programming. Within a short period of time, a good programmer would be able to tell if someone doesn’t know what they are talking about.

> It’s just like this XKCD comic: https://xkcd.com/451/

> But, what about stock picking? How long would it take to determine if someone is a good stock picker?*

> An hour? A week? A year?

> Try multiple years, and even then you still may not know for sure. The issue is that causality is harder to determine with stock picking than with other domains. When you shoot a basketball or write a computer program, the result comes immediately after the action. The ball goes in the hoop or it doesn’t. The program runs correctly or it doesn’t. But, with stock picking, you make a decision now and have to wait for it to pay off. The feedback loop can take years.

> And the payoff you do eventually get has to be compared to the payoff of buying an index fund like the S&P 500. So, even if you make money on absolute terms, you can still lose money on relative terms.

* https://ofdollarsanddata.com/why-you-shouldnt-pick-individua...

Even Buffett himself has said that buying an index is probably the best way for most people.

If you're worried about any single country not being productive, just buy the index of the entire planet:

* https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/VT

If the entire planet tanks… we probably have bigger problems at that point.

Generally, feel free to try to beat the market, but the odds are against you. We've know this at least the 1970s:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#35

There's something really insidious about tying 401ks and other retirement accounts to the stock market. People including myself end up with a large portion of our assets essentially gambled on the future success of US corporations. It gives some false legitimacy to this idea that our media is constantly pushing, that if the stock market is going well then regular Americans are doing well.

If you're an elite you want to tie the fortunes of the wider population to your own. It's a good way to secure your position.

The stock market doesnt keep going up because of the economy. It does so because of politics.

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#36

Buying value stocks may be better than buying an index, but identifying value stocks is hard and time consuming. Wouldn't the average investor be better off buying index funds, since the average investor does not have the time, inclination, or training to find value stocks?

There are value index funds. Vanguards is VTV

The article suggests that “value investing” is not just about price ratios (which is mostly all such indexes can offer).

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#38
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. European markets are known to pay out more dividends whereas the US market is known to prioritize stock price growth. Return-wise that makes no theoretical difference.

Makes a huge difference when considering the tax implications.

Many retirement funds are in a tax shelter either way, though.

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#39

There's something really insidious about tying 401ks and other retirement accounts to the stock market. People including myself end up with a large portion of our assets essentially gambled on the future success of US corporations. It gives some false legitimacy to this idea that our media is constantly pushing, that if the stock market is going well then regular Americans are doing well.

This is 1000000% true.

The entire system is completely broken. It is literally designed to make the markets keep going up, which as usual benefits the wealthy far more than the average person. And people who are even middle class barely really benefit from it. While the lower class and poor don't benefit at all.

I choose not to participate in "investing" because it's not investing. It's literally gambling. You can't control what a company does. You can't control if a pandemic hits just when you want to retire and your assets as cut in half.

Instead of real retirement plans, higher guaranteed social security.. they have shifted nearly all the risk to the individuals and essentially forced them to just put money in the markets which artificially inflate the value of everything. And they just hope the ponzi scheme continues.

Re: I'm Too Risk-Averse for Index Investing

#40
post #5

Makes you wonder why the 89% of fund managers that fail to beat the market don't just pick "value" stocks.

Because the way to get ahead as an active fund manager isn't to deliver returns that match S&P 500, it's to deliver returns that are uncorrelated with the primary market.

Once you're in top half of that 11% who consistently beat the market that way even if by luck, survivorship bias will have customers beating a path to your door. Nobody remembers the 89%.

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