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Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

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Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of Mozilla's behavior makes you assume they don't ? It's easy to come up with some dubious internal justification to store IPs (like to determine where to focus internationalization efforts).

It's not even internal justification, it's just plainly the default for practically any web server that does logging. You would have to go out of your way to disable it.

Not logging IPs or establishing controls on it is table-stakes for anyone doing anything serious about privacy.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#122
post #106

This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't that the entire brand identity of Firefox is Privacy. It's like discovering there's ham in a vegetarian sandwich. When you ask them they look puzzled and say their focus group was clear it tastes a lot better that way, besides it's just a little bit and the bread is vegetarian and there's way more meat in a Big Mac.

This also wouldn't be so bad if people were capable of nuance instead of acting as if everything involving data were the same thing. I won't claim Mozilla is in any way perfect, but even as someone who is very much pro-privacy it is a little bit ridiculous how much people loose their shit about tiny things like this and claim there is no difference to what other trackers do.

If you position your product as being about privacy, your company about being about privacy, and talk about the importance of online privacy whenever you get any sort of opportunity, then it looks extremely bad if you can't refrain from spying on your users. I don't really think there is any way around this fact.

If this type of telemetry is necessary for Mozilla to develop software, then perhaps they shouldn't be talking so much about privacy, because as it stands, they're not walking the talk, that's what ultimately looks bad. The telemetry is incidental. Nobody is railing against Microsoft for doing the same thing because they're not constantly seen preaching about how bad it is.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla has never advertised that their software was designed to keep you anonymous.

No, but they advertise that "Firefox automatically protects your privacy while you browse". https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-prote...

technically they did not lie. “While you browse” is clearly excluding the time whilst installing the browser.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#124
post #14

They seem to be trying to gather a lot of telemetry to measure how they can boost popularity of Firefox. I wonder did they tried to measure how the measurement itself influences popularity? Social measurements are like quantum ones, they change reality. There was a funny story of a Hawthorn Experiment[1], which tried to find ways to boost productivity but at the end managed to state just that the very attempt to cond…

Maybe they just kind of forgot how to make good software and now desperately try to recreate that magic using loads of metrics and social experiments leading to loads of competing interpretations and infighting.

There are nothing wrong with laying a scientific basis under your anecdotal experience, to get an ability to reproduce your successes. But it must be done by using the best possible scientific methods and by great minds, just a statistics wouldn't do it magically.

My (probably wrong) opinion, is that they hired data scientists who knows nothing about social science's research and these statisticians are trying to substitute research with data gathering and statistics. If something doesn't work, then instead of refining their research techniques they gather more data. They had hit the ceiling of this paradigm but they do not know it.

There are other options beyond data. For example you can find representatives of different categories of users and research their use of your software (or software you compete with). You need not have millions of representatives, a dozen would be enough for the most practical purposes, just pick them carefully so they will be the most diverse set of representatives. Or you can even have no real representatives, you can imagine them. It is a real technique of UX professionals, I heard of it in a talk at some conference from people who are professionally using it. If it doesn't seem rigorous enough, one could dig into Judea Pearl and to make a formal quantitative model out of it. One can even measure differences between this quantitative model and the reality, and it wouldn't necessarily lead to an annoying telemetry.

I will not be surprised if there are techniques I never heard of that can compete with a statistical data processing: I'm not an UX specialist, I just was curious about it at some point, because it lays on a boundaries of two interests of mine -- psychology research and software development. But Mozilla seem unaware of them all. They gather data instead.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#125
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also wouldn't be so bad if people were capable of nuance instead of acting as if everything involving data were the same thing. I won't claim Mozilla is in any way perfect, but even as someone who is very much pro-privacy it is a little bit ridiculous how much people loose their shit about tiny things like this and claim there is no difference to what other trackers do.

If you position your product as being about privacy, your company about being about privacy, and talk about the importance of online privacy whenever you get any sort of opportunity, then it looks extremely bad if you can't refrain from spying on your users. I don't really think there is any way around this fact. If this type of telemetry is necessary for Mozilla to develop software, then perhaps they shouldn't be ta…

do you seriously consider counting how many installs are triggered from a download "spying"? Privacy is a bit more complicated than that IMHO.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#126

Suppose you want to do something anonymously. 1. Download installer from Mozilla from your home network - Mozilla now has your home IP and installer ID. 2. Transfer it via USB key to a secure, anonymous computer - one not linked to you, on a network not associated with you, such as public WiFi. 3. Install Firefox using that installer on said computer. It transmits the installer ID to Mozilla, which matches the one gi…

I hope you don’t use the internet at all if this is your threat model.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#127
post #10

Firefox users who prefer to download the browser without the unique identifier may do so in the following two ways: Download the Firefox installer from Mozilla's HTTPS repository (formerly the FTP repository). Download Firefox from third-party download sites that host the installer, e.g., from Softonic. It's nuts and another indication Mozilla doesn't understand the reason they exist, but it's not that hard to get ar…

Use a reputable Linux distro and install from the official repos, problem solved. To date the Debian maintainers have proven more trustworthy than 99.99% of the software vendors out there. They also appear to have better security practices than most commercial shops.

Re: Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was this principle violated in this case?

It gives Mozilla the opportunity to connect my IP address with my browser with my Mozilla account. Mozilla needs to bow down to the US govt and supply them with this information should they have stored it, if the govt feels they need it.

You log into your mozilla account from your browser through the goddamn internet. They literally have to have your IP address for that and that adds absolutely zero information than necessary. It is just “people want to be outraged over nothing” yet again.
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