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Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

erikhoel.substack.com

461–470 of 505 posts

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#461
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the same in any other country. There are state-sponsored chess clubs everywhere.

no, there are not. only in the ex-soviet states. that's why they dominate chess forever. the talentpool is huge, and education is good. nobody else comes close, in infrastructure and level.

Have you lived in an ex-Soviet state? Have you seen the USSR from the inside with your own eyes? I have, and I am so much tired from people glorifying it.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#462
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk's kids don't. There's been some reporting on it. They go to 'Synthesis School'/'Ad Astra School'/'Astra Nova'. It seems vaguely like STEM Montessori in attitude from what I've read. Relatively small student:staff ratio, but doesn't appear to be anywhere close to a 1:1 ratio which is what tutoring is. I haven't seen any mentions of supplementary tutoring either. (I can't think of any tech titans whose kids do rec…

Musk started that school. They go to the school made by their father. I am sure they are getting quite an "aristocratic" education.

Musk can start the school all he wants, doesn't mean it's tutoring. Don't round off the question "are Musk's kids being tutored" to "is a lot of money being spent on it". They are not the same.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#464
Britain used to crank out popular music. Why that'd stop?

One theory is because the dole was ended. (Thank you Tatcher!) Aspiring pop stars generally started as struggling artists. Now they're just starving artists.

I assume that improving the safety net, eg UBI, will unlock amazing human potential. Give all those undiscovered geniuses a chance to follow their whim, vs grind away as fulfillment center wage slaves.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#465

All geniuses were a manufactured product, bar none. Einstein and Newton are products, not individuals, of an ancient marketing campaign. No different from Gaga or Beyonce in the present. Beyonce exists as an idea more so than a person. What is nominally a group of individuals working collectively to solve a problem became attributed to a single person purely for marketing purposes. It is easier for most people to rem…

> Einstein and Newton are products, not individuals, of an ancient marketing campaign.

Isaac Newton is on the short list of candidates for the most intelligent person who ever lived. "Marketing" is ancillary to that fact, at best.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 2010, I was invited to a party in a building down at the south end of Manhattan. We were 4 blocks from Wall Street. It was a new building, my friend had just moved in. The building was for the "$400,000 a year working stiffs" of Wall Street, but that line is from 1987 (the movie Wall Street) and nowadays they all make a few million a year. I was surprised by the relatively poor quality of the building. All th…

The vast majority of people buying expensive houses and condos are paying for prestige, location, and square footage, not quality of fit and finish. You can get stuff done better, it just costs even more, since the skills are rarer (as they are no longer needed for many projects, thanks to mass production and power tools). Unless you're self-managing your project, the people actually doing the work for your contracto…

I think a useful rephrasing of this: base-level, meets-code work gets you a guaranteed market. Work above that level doesn't do well on resale, so you do it if you have a buyer up front; home owners, in turn, only do that work if they're planning to stick around a while (and even then, only certain people.)

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have evidence for your claim? everything I can find suggests that literacy is about as high as ever, as are book sales.

I'm not sure what sort of data could support this, but I'll just say this: there is a difference between reading quantity and quality. I'm merely echoing greater critics, but the quantity of books sold says little about their quality (markets see books as commodities and try to make make profit rather than spreading good literature, and this is understandable). Plus, judging by the number of unread books on my shelf,…

purely anecdotally to my own experience, but I firmly believe that not only social media, but the screen size of phones themselves incentivize fast context switching shallow low quality reading, which has detrimental effects on cognition. Sure everyone has the worlds knowledge in their pocket, but all incentives are to only consume the lowest quality of knowledge

If I don't make it a daily habit, it becomes difficult to read a novel, I am unable to maintain the attention required, which phone scrolling im sure has exacerbated.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#468
post #403

But the reason why so many historical figures were tutored or homeschooled is because there was no adequate public education system. This is confusing correlation for causation. Indeed, Bertrand Russell wrote: > The method of a hereditary leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily wasteful. None of the members of the class had been taught to be industrious, and the class as a whole was not exceptional…

> But the reason why so many historical figures were tutored or homeschooled is because there was no adequate public education system.

By definition no public school can be as good as anything Russell got. Russell had the privilege of his brother teaching him geometry and hence set him on his path to mathematical greatness. He came from a distinguished family. No public education can replicate the personal 1 to 1 knowledge transfer/education.

> None of the members of the class had been taught to be industrious

Yes. It's why people like Russell, Darwin, Turing, etc had the time to work on non-industrious subjects. If darwin, russell or turing were industrious, nobody would be talking about them today.

Public education system was created firstly to produce obedient soldiers for the state and secondly to provide drones for factories.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's something in this. The "where's today's Beethoven" chart would be completely explained either by an actual decline, or by it becoming harder to be rated a genius against contemporaries over time. And that itself is mostly a numbers game too: the human population now is 7 times larger than it was at Beethoven's death. Vienna's population (relevant since we're talking about Beethoven) was about 200,000…

The human population isn't really important to that chart. " Below, we can see the number of acclaimed scientists (in blue) and artists (in red), divided by the effective population (total human population with the education and access to contribute to these fields). " The denominator has increased massively faster than the base population.

That's only true if acclaim scales with population. Or more specifically, if the "number of acclaimed scientists..." would scale with the total number of scientists in the absence of a falloff in rate of their creation. That's the point: I don't think it does. I think it's reasonable to assume that in a larger population, a given level of acclaim is harder to achieve for any given individual. Same fish, bigger pond.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#470

Most people here are interpreting "genius" as something like "really smart" or "able to make scientific progress". I don't believe that's the author's meaning: he's talking about individuals whose work single-handedly upends our understanding of the world and causes a revolutionary change in thinking. By that definition, making a faster CPU, or a very successful product is not sufficient. By that definition, who are…

Claude Shannon. Maybe rms. Its not that we don't have genius anymore; we simply built a new pantheon out of the geniuses of the day about 150 years ago and then haven't been keeping up with the work of canonizing new members. Dale Carnegie and Elon Musk get the "demi-god" status, somehow; we know their successes are the work of many others but who but the most obsessed know those names?

Andrew Carnegie drowned half a town before he started building libraries. Drowned as in a lot of people died. For a country club for his rich friends. This still ranks among the top civil engineering disasters in history, over a century later. Don't scrimp on earthen dams, folks.

(the Carnegie library in my old neighborhood is a bar. I don't know if the town lowered the main roads or they built the library on a hill in town on purpose, but it sticks out like a pretentious, sore thumb now.)

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