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H.264 is Magic (2016)

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21–30 of 229 posts

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#21
Does anything interesting happen if you take the frequency domain representation of an image, represent the frequency domain as an image itself, and compress that with some sort of image compression?

For example, encode the frequency domain representation as a low quality JPEG, and then undo the steps to turn it back into the "original". How do the JPEG artifacts on the frequency domain manifest in the resulting image?

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#22
post #9

See also H.265: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding And now even H.266: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Video_Coding Also, at what point will AV1 become "mainstream"? How prevalent is it? Still seems that hardware decoding (never mind encoding) support is still only so-so.

Yeah, in this era of mobile device dominance i think hardware decoding is key. Suspect Apple will add it then suddenly the Android SoC folks will suddenly consider it a priority and not before.

Apple won't add it; they traditionally ignore free codecs, and even if they implement them, it is so limited, so it is usable only in the narrow situation, where it is required (see Opus, for example).

On the PC side, decoding is supported by Intel (since Tiger Lake), Nvidia (since 30x0) and AMD (since RDNA2). On the mobile side, it is supported by bunch of mobile chip vendors, like Mediatek or Samsung; so you can have an android device that does support AV1 already; on OS-side it is supported since Android 10. Vendors like Amlogic also support it, so settopboxes are also covered.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#23
post #9

See also H.265: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding And now even H.266: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Video_Coding Also, at what point will AV1 become "mainstream"? How prevalent is it? Still seems that hardware decoding (never mind encoding) support is still only so-so.

Yeah, in this era of mobile device dominance i think hardware decoding is key. Suspect Apple will add it then suddenly the Android SoC folks will suddenly consider it a priority and not before.

Qualcomm (a major holder of mpeg patents) recently announced AV1 support in their future chips.

They were the last holdout among Android vendors.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#24
> "a technical walkthrough"

> "Suppose you have some strange coin - you've tossed it 10 times, and every time it lands on heads. How would you describe this information to someone? You wouldn't say HHHHHHHHH. You would just say "10 tosses, all heads" - bam! You've just compressed some data! Easy. I saved you hours of mindfuck lectures."

Ahh, my favorite kind of technical walkthrough. Love it

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#25

Does anything interesting happen if you take the frequency domain representation of an image, represent the frequency domain as an image itself, and compress that with some sort of image compression? For example, encode the frequency domain representation as a low quality JPEG, and then undo the steps to turn it back into the "original". How do the JPEG artifacts on the frequency domain manifest in the resulting imag…

the frequency domain of the frequency domain is just a flipped version of the original image, so that would not work. the idea of frequency-domain based compression is that natural images have little high-frequency information.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#27

See also H.265: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding And now even H.266: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Video_Coding Also, at what point will AV1 become "mainstream"? How prevalent is it? Still seems that hardware decoding (never mind encoding) support is still only so-so.

The Broadcasting industry has definitely sided with VVC. So 8K broadcast will likely be using VVC along with possibly LCEVC [1] as announced by the Brazilian SBTVD standard.

The AV1 question is harder to answer. One could argue VP9 is good enough and a few more years before it reach 100% VP9 hardware decoding on Smartphone. Of course Google could force the usage of AV1 in the future if they slowly phaseout VP9 video and only support AV1 on Youtube, while using H.264 as baseline. Qualcomm should have AV1 decoding on Snapdragon by late 2022 / 2023. Mediatek are starting to roll AV1 decoding as well. No timeline on encoding and generally speaking I dont expect any mobile hardware vendor to use AV1 encoding in the near future.

Even to this day I still do not believe Apple will support AV1 decode, at least not until Google forced the AV1 usage. That is a very contrarian view not just on HN but generally on the internet. But recent news with MPEGLA and AccessAdvance might have change things bit.

[1] vhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCEVC

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#29

Fabrice Bellard's BPG image format uses H.265's keyframe compressor: https://bellard.org/bpg/ Here is a side-by-side visual comparison: http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bugfixes/#ballet-exerci... Amazing. I ported his BPG decoder to Android ARM for a pornographic app. See my comment history for details. It reduced data transfer by more than 60%.

Wow that comparison is really cool. Looking at BPG vs original, you can see some loss of fine detail as the file size cranks down, but you can get an excellent reproduction with an order of magnitude less storage. Seems like BPG is smoothing the image a bit. For example, the space shuttle image has film grain in the sky, but BPG smooths this away.

Significantly better than JPEG at small file sizes... BPG eliminates the obvious color banding and does a much better job preserving detail.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#30
post #17

Almost all of those encoding concepts mentioned are not introduced with H.264, but much earlier with MPEG-2 in the early 90's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

Yes, I was expecting "a technical walkthrough" of how H.264 managed to improve on its predecessors. There’s nothing specific to H.264 in the article.
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