Live data from Hacker News

In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

en.wikipedia.org

11–20 of 217 posts

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#11
post #5

The typical way to handle a pneumothorax (without an existing hole in the chest) in pre-hospital care is with a chest decompression needle, which is often a part of a paramedic’s kit: https://www.narescue.com/ars-for-needle-decompression-3-25-i... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracentesis Would have been much easier than using a coat hanger and silverware if they had it on board, already pre-sterilized…

Thats the typical way to handle a tension pneumo, which is slightly different but highly emergent. It's unlikely the case described was a tension pneumo because of the time period, but it very well could have developed that way, and regardless the treatment should be as useful - however one of the benefits of a needle decompression is that, because the lung has compressed so significantly, you don't have to be too concerned about where you drop it (ie you will always hit an airspace). whereas in the intermediate stages (which is what it sounds like they were treating), entering laterally ~4/5th intercostal space is better because you're less likely to hit lung which still occupies a significant percentage of the chest cavity - ie more likely to hit the air pocket AND provide definitive treatment (which clearly some macgyver surgery is not).

So more than likely they were aiming to intervene before it needed to be a needle decompression. But also, they were probably thinking this is going to be a ripper of a story and we've got the skills to pull it off

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#12
post #8

I raise you the guy who removed his own appendix in the jungle after escaping from a prisoner of war camp: https://www.smh.com.au/culture/books/the-war-hero-who-remove...

Or this Russian guy on an expedition in the Antarctic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Rogozov#Antarctic_ser...

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#13
post #8

I raise you the guy who removed his own appendix in the jungle after escaping from a prisoner of war camp: https://www.smh.com.au/culture/books/the-war-hero-who-remove...

Similar to what happened to a doctor in Antarctica: https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-ant...

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#14
I've had an spontaneous pneumothorax when I was a teenager. Had to undergo emergency surgery with only local anesthesia. The surgeon while cutting my chest asked: "You're sure it is this side, right?", which I confirmed. He then said: "Ok, if you're wrong I'm not going to jail alone."

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#15
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The patient was now comfortable, felt well and we retired to our seats to recover. Eight hours later I was again summoned by the stewardess to see the patient, who had developed more chest pain and dyspnoea. > I found her sitting on the toilet with the underwater seal drain on a high shelf. All the water and air had syphoned out of the bottle into the chest. The crisis resolved when I placed the underwater seal dra…

Eight hours! It's hard to believe the woman's condition was critical enough to require invasive surgery with these makeshift tools mid-flight, but so stable post-op that the doctors did not recommend an emergency landing. I understand they recommended against landing pre-op because of worries about cabin pressure, but why not after the surgery? She's going to have to come down at some point.

Why further inconvenience everyone else for this moron, if they (clearly correctly) judged her no longer to be in danger?

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#16
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The patient was now comfortable, felt well and we retired to our seats to recover. Eight hours later I was again summoned by the stewardess to see the patient, who had developed more chest pain and dyspnoea. > I found her sitting on the toilet with the underwater seal drain on a high shelf. All the water and air had syphoned out of the bottle into the chest. The crisis resolved when I placed the underwater seal dra…

Eight hours! It's hard to believe the woman's condition was critical enough to require invasive surgery with these makeshift tools mid-flight, but so stable post-op that the doctors did not recommend an emergency landing. I understand they recommended against landing pre-op because of worries about cabin pressure, but why not after the surgery? She's going to have to come down at some point.

I don't understand your point. If it's no longer an emergency, why require an emergency landing?

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#17
post #15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight hours! It's hard to believe the woman's condition was critical enough to require invasive surgery with these makeshift tools mid-flight, but so stable post-op that the doctors did not recommend an emergency landing. I understand they recommended against landing pre-op because of worries about cabin pressure, but why not after the surgery? She's going to have to come down at some point.

Why further inconvenience everyone else for this moron, if they (clearly correctly) judged her no longer to be in danger?

I really hope that doctors don't provide medical advice based on idiocy(or lack of) of ones actions. If she had to undergo emergency surgery in-flight with a coat hanger, I'm really surprised an emergency landing wasn't recommended by the doctor. The origin of her injury should have had zero bearing on it.

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#18
post #11
post #5

The typical way to handle a pneumothorax (without an existing hole in the chest) in pre-hospital care is with a chest decompression needle, which is often a part of a paramedic’s kit: https://www.narescue.com/ars-for-needle-decompression-3-25-i... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracentesis Would have been much easier than using a coat hanger and silverware if they had it on board, already pre-sterilized…

Thats the typical way to handle a tension pneumo, which is slightly different but highly emergent. It's unlikely the case described was a tension pneumo because of the time period, but it very well could have developed that way, and regardless the treatment should be as useful - however one of the benefits of a needle decompression is that, because the lung has compressed so significantly, you don't have to be too co…

How much of a factor is the (relatively) super low air pressure in an airplane at cruising altitude? Does this cause more or less severity wrt the amount of air trapped in the chest?

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#19
post #16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight hours! It's hard to believe the woman's condition was critical enough to require invasive surgery with these makeshift tools mid-flight, but so stable post-op that the doctors did not recommend an emergency landing. I understand they recommended against landing pre-op because of worries about cabin pressure, but why not after the surgery? She's going to have to come down at some point.

I don't understand your point. If it's no longer an emergency, why require an emergency landing?

When you just did surgery with a knife and fork seems like an urgent enough situation to land?

Re: In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

#20
post #7

'the doctors successfully released the trapped air from the patient's chest, and she spent the rest of the flight uneventfully eating and watching in-flight movies'

How does one do that after having a hole cut in one’s chest? Pain-wise.
Post reply on HN