Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored • Hacker News Board

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#401

Post by VirusNewbie » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:17 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #372

fakethenews2022 wrote: post #354

If you look at the sports world, you will see that its equivalent of tutoring is hugely beneficial and is alive and well. The Williams sisters and their father are one obvious example but if you dig deeper, you will see many more examples. Rafael Nadal was tutored by his uncle. Tiger Woods was tutored by his father. Also, look at coaches. They are often the sons and daughters of coaches. Tutoring allows exploring and…

This is survivorship bias. I've played pick-up basketball with a ton of dudes whose parents sunk hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into training and coaching, and they're generally stunningly mediocre. Tim Duncan, widely regarded as the greatest power forward of all time, held a basketball for the first time as a freshman in highschool when hurricane Hugo destroyed the pool and he had to pick a new sport to…

Basketball almost assuredly has to be an extreme outlier here though, in that outrageously rare physical attributes are almost a necessity to play competitively. I realize there have been some exceptions with very small players but they seem rarer and rarer each year.

This doesn't invalidate your point, but we might get a more accurate picture if we only looked at people who ended up 6'3, strong and athletic.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#402

Post by WanderPanda » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:29 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #394

I could be totally wrong, but my hunch is that this is more related to the lowest hanging fruit rather than human capacity. Maybe scientific discoveries simply get exponentially harder. In painting, it's very rare for someone to make anything original these days. We won't have any more Picassos, etc, simply because they were the first to explore a new terrain. It's really not a matter of education, genetics, or talen…

What about Banksy e.g.?

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#403

Post by acenes » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:35 AM UTC

But the reason why so many historical figures were tutored or homeschooled is because there was no adequate public education system. This is confusing correlation for causation. Indeed, Bertrand Russell wrote:

> The method of a hereditary leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily wasteful. None of the members of the class had been taught to be industrious, and the class as a whole was not exceptionally intelligent. It might produce one Darwin, but against him had to be set tens of thousands of country gentlemen who never thought of anything more intelligent than fox-hunting and punishing poachers.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#404

Post by datatrashfire » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:37 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #388

s-lambert wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still not anywhere near the same though, a tutor is able to figure out what the student is missing through observation and also teach in a way that the student will learn fastest. Whereas any internet resource relies on the student being able to figure out what they themselves don't know and isn't tailor-made for them.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Having a person sit down with you and walk you through everything one on one is great. Having swathes of useful information available to everyone that's interested and determined is a sure way to create a much more highly educated society at a low cost. And as a bonus, geniuses are more able to hone their gifts so you get more of them.

The argument is that 1:1 instruction, or tutoring, is a superior way to acquire knowledge. Having lots of information available is great, but not a substitute.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#405

Post by krnlpnc » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:44 AM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #402

pier25 wrote: post #394

I could be totally wrong, but my hunch is that this is more related to the lowest hanging fruit rather than human capacity. Maybe scientific discoveries simply get exponentially harder. In painting, it's very rare for someone to make anything original these days. We won't have any more Picassos, etc, simply because they were the first to explore a new terrain. It's really not a matter of education, genetics, or talen…

What about Banksy e.g.?

You mean Robert Del Naja?

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#406

Post by regpertom » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:48 AM UTC

Feynman talks on names of birds being irrelevant. Also that there’s a hidden side to science not talked about and just assumed the student will pick up, that your weaknesses should be exposed. Also cargo culting.

Bart Simpsons karate teacher says first we fill your head with knowledge then we break bricks with it.

The article says tutors went on the grand tour. We’re full time live in always available.

The Huxley quote in this comment section. —————————

I wonder with SEO popularity marketing contests and polarised viscous populations, have people just learnt eyegouges? So now no one has eyes. How can a “naive academic” be produced in a trap filled landscape of litigious deconstruction?

Example, Feynman has a go at the reporter about asking why magnets work. Russels soft speaking. Could “we” allow these things?

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#407

Post by jollybean » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 4:01 AM UTC

Everyone with an education was tutored in such a way.

We don't lack 'geniuses' we have more brilliant and educated people than ever.

It just so happens there are not a lot of low-hanging fruit of easy things to be discovered by 'gentleman astronomers with a telescope in their backyard'.

The only thing we may be a bit short on, are people who have focussed extremely hard on one thing.

Eddie Van Halen was nerding out in his bedroom for 10 years learning to spread before becoming famous.

I think with Social Media, a lot of people are constantly distracted.

But even with that said, the amount of talented kids with instruments is something else. Youtube is a source of inspiration and learning.

Of course 'the greats' are going to be coached and 'at it' since a young age, there's nothing new there.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#408

Post by betwixthewires » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 4:03 AM UTC

datatrashfire wrote: post #404

betwixthewires wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Having a person sit down with you and walk you through everything one on one is great. Having swathes of useful information available to everyone that's interested and determined is a sure way to create a much more highly educated society at a low cost. And as a bonus, geniuses are more able to hone their gifts so you get more of them.

The argument is that 1:1 instruction, or tutoring, is a superior way to acquire knowledge. Having lots of information available is great, but not a substitute.

The discussion here is about an argument that says basically without tutoring you can't create Einsteins. My only point is that we can now make them easier and cheaper than ever because they can make themselves.

On this specific topic, I must admit I do believe 1:1 tutoring is overrated. I've taught myself most of what I know, and the rest I learned in a classroom. I have never had one on one tutoring. I may not be representative of the population, but I bet most people don't need near as much tutoring as a tutor would have you believe, they just need access to accurate and well organized information.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#409

Post by jollybean » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 4:03 AM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #402

pier25 wrote: post #394

I could be totally wrong, but my hunch is that this is more related to the lowest hanging fruit rather than human capacity. Maybe scientific discoveries simply get exponentially harder. In painting, it's very rare for someone to make anything original these days. We won't have any more Picassos, etc, simply because they were the first to explore a new terrain. It's really not a matter of education, genetics, or talen…

What about Banksy e.g.?

Banksy's most iconic stuff is kind of ripped off.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#410

Post by fouc » Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 4:17 AM UTC

acenes wrote: post #403

But the reason why so many historical figures were tutored or homeschooled is because there was no adequate public education system. This is confusing correlation for causation. Indeed, Bertrand Russell wrote: > The method of a hereditary leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily wasteful. None of the members of the class had been taught to be industrious, and the class as a whole was not exceptional…

I have a strong suspicion that aristocrat homeschooling would still beat out public education system in many ways..

For example, public education system doesn't particularly touch on social skills, etiquette, rulership/leadership, Machiavellianism, business, investing, property management, etc.