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Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

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Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#41

Post by BoorishBears »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #5

I think Flutter is better _because_ it uses Dart. I used to hate that decision ("Not another language to learn.."), but Flutter and Dart are like Mac and macOS (I'm aware people complaining about macOS quality going down the hill.. but that's another story). They're both from the same company, seemingly built for each other, and the language (Dart) improvements are _relevant_ for the platform (Flutter). Flutter still…

Dart as a language is so far behind I refuse to use Flutter (and I did try it for a bit)

It's like going from Kotlin to Java, or Swift to ObjC, or Typescript to Js. Tooling stinks, language features are missing, ergonomics are bad.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#42

Post by meerita »

penjelly wrote: post #29
meerita wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did that with one guy after month 3, the guy accepted and started Flutter course, etc. He quit the job on month 5 arguing he disliked Flutter and Dart.

sample size of 1. It may not have been for that individual but that doesnt mean hiring and training on the job is incorrect

Correct, but the reality was we couldn't afford a larger sample to see if Flutter is superior or not to other options.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#43

Post by a4isms »

jamonholmgren wrote: post #20
a4isms wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart is absolutely a C-style language.* ——— * In all the ways that don't matter.

I suppose this is going to become part of the HN lexicon now...

In a rant that was (at one time) legendary, the late Erik Naggum responded to the argument that XML was nothing more than another way to write s-exprs, and if you like s-exprs, the only quibble you have with XML is the syntax.

Erik wrote, They are not identical. The aspects you are willing to ignore are more important than the aspects you are willing to accept. He went on to write a great deal more that I am not willing to quote, but at its core was this same argument:

Sometimes two things seem very similar, but the ways in which they are similar are unimportant, and the ways in which they differ are profound.

My guess is that little aphorisms like this will come into and out of fashion over and over again, because this argument is one we will have over and over again.

https://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#44

Post by zerkten »

mwattsun wrote: post #7

I've programmed a lot in both Dart and C# and my take is that Microsoft looked at Java and decided they needed a Java-like language like so they made C#. Google was into Java but Oracle sued them over it so they decided they needed a Java-like language so made Dart. Edit: Dart is ridiculously easy to learn because it's very familiar so if someone complains about having to learn Dart it means they don't want to learn…

Microsoft's story isn't that different from the Google one. Microsoft had a Java language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B). Arguably, they had a better language designer in Anders Hjelsberg, as well as a lot of component-based development experience from COM, that enabled them to build a platform that was in many ways better. Things like WebForms were relatively stunted as model for web development and would be replaced by MVC aligning to what the world was mostly doing all along.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#45

Post by akmarinov »

GranPC wrote: post #34

I'm surprised Flutter's performance compares favorably to React Native here. Last time I tried Flutter (around 1 year ago) even the simplest of scrolling demos noticeably stuttered dropped frames on my phone. React Native apps work fine. Was that just my experience?

Were you testing on an iPhone? They had a big issue on iPhones that they fixed a couple of months back.

Flutter is a very Android first framework, for obvious reasons.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#46

Post by klodolph »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #5

I think Flutter is better _because_ it uses Dart. I used to hate that decision ("Not another language to learn.."), but Flutter and Dart are like Mac and macOS (I'm aware people complaining about macOS quality going down the hill.. but that's another story). They're both from the same company, seemingly built for each other, and the language (Dart) improvements are _relevant_ for the platform (Flutter). Flutter still…

Dart is also surprisingly nice, in a lot of ways.

I don't want to get down too much into the details because much of language design is subjective. I found it very easy to work with because it has a lot of the edges sanded off, relative to JavaScript. The developer experience is pretty good.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#47

Post by Superblazer »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #5

I think Flutter is better _because_ it uses Dart. I used to hate that decision ("Not another language to learn.."), but Flutter and Dart are like Mac and macOS (I'm aware people complaining about macOS quality going down the hill.. but that's another story). They're both from the same company, seemingly built for each other, and the language (Dart) improvements are _relevant_ for the platform (Flutter). Flutter still…

I cannot use dart again after trying out Kotlin. Dart is just not good.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#48

Post by jamonholmgren »

onion2k wrote: post #24

This article highlights one of the things that really bugs me about tech hiring. The availability of developers who know a language or tech isn't a limiting factor if you're willing to hire people and give them the time to learn. Yes, it's expensive, but if there really are productivity benefits from using a particular tool then you should end up better off in the long term anyway. The expectation that another compan…

I don't disagree, but you kind of answered your own question here:

> Unless companies start hiring to mentor people this will not change, and probably TS will just eat all the others in the long run.

You and I both know this will not change. Thus, TS will eat all the others. That's an underlying assumption in my article, to be honest.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#49

Post by GranPC »

akmarinov wrote: post #45
GranPC wrote: post #34

I'm surprised Flutter's performance compares favorably to React Native here. Last time I tried Flutter (around 1 year ago) even the simplest of scrolling demos noticeably stuttered dropped frames on my phone. React Native apps work fine. Was that just my experience?

Were you testing on an iPhone? They had a big issue on iPhones that they fixed a couple of months back. Flutter is a very Android first framework, for obvious reasons.

Nope, mid-to-high range Android phone from mid-2017. Haven't tried Flutter on iOS at all.

Re: Flutter is better than React Native in all the ways that don’t matter

#50

Post by BaseballPhysics »

vbezhenar wrote: post #35
onion2k wrote: post #24

This article highlights one of the things that really bugs me about tech hiring. The availability of developers who know a language or tech isn't a limiting factor if you're willing to hire people and give them the time to learn. Yes, it's expensive, but if there really are productivity benefits from using a particular tool then you should end up better off in the long term anyway. The expectation that another compan…

You will spend year teaching someone then he leaves for another company who gave him 20% rase. You're net negative, they're net positive. You'll lose the race in the end. This could be a good approach for someone huge like Google or government. Asking that from an ordinary company will not work.

> You will spend year teaching someone then he leaves for another company who gave him 20% rase.

This only makes sense if you hired the person at 20% below their market rate under the belief that they were less valuable as a hire simply because they didn't have a specific skillset you needed, and then once they acquired that skillset you failed to adjust their salary accordingly.

But the entire thesis of the OPs comment is that we shouldn't be valuing staff based on any one specific technical skillset, but rather based on their broader software development skills and experience, because learning the ins and outs of any specific software stack is not itself that difficult given enough experience.

Solution: hire and retain at a competitive market rate. Problem solved.

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