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US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

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Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#921

Post by whiplash451 »

mvkel wrote: post #879
jlokier wrote: post #794

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people. I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST. In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm. Someone pointed out virtu…

Norway would be the counter argument to everything you've said. Highly educated, longest living, least depressed. And the sun is out at midnight 76 days per year there. Humans are adaptable. A -permanent- hour change would surely be less harmful than changing said hours twice a year.

A couple things:

1. Comparing the US (or any other country) to Norway is not valid because there are so many confounding variables. For one, Norway sinks in oil money and uses that money extensively to fund great social welfare programs.

2. What matters is relative within a country, not between country. The US had the choice between two time zones, and that's the question at stake here (not how the US compares to other countries, or how other countries deal with short day light periods).

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#923

Post by jyrkesh »

jlokier wrote: post #794

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people. I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST. In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm. Someone pointed out virtu…

If lockdown WFH has taught me anything, it's that the times that we've set for doing activities day-to-day is totally arbitrary. I work with people across all timezones now, and it's clear that the way that I set the clock is just a pacing metric for the way that my job and the businesses around me give me the freedom to do what I need to do.

If what you're saying is true, schools should start at 10a. We need to have those conversations.

I'm on one coast, my coworkers are on another, we gotta figure out how to sync our meetings. Same goes with when the supermarkets are open.

Most of us are not farming anymore. It's just about having a consistent meter stick to which to adjust our standards.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#924

Post by snvzz »

jsdevtom wrote: post #922

All these arguments about school times etc. My code would be eternally ridiculed if I mocked the Date object to artificially change the time, instead changing the time school started for certain months.

My favorite take:

Americans decide to relocate Noon to a 13h target, thus redefining the clock's meaning.

- The sun stays up longer, I love it. - celebrates a random testimony.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#925

Post by peter_tolstrup »

mvkel wrote: post #879
jlokier wrote: post #794

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people. I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST. In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm. Someone pointed out virtu…

Norway would be the counter argument to everything you've said. Highly educated, longest living, least depressed. And the sun is out at midnight 76 days per year there. Humans are adaptable. A -permanent- hour change would surely be less harmful than changing said hours twice a year.

Norway is one of the richest countries in the world – because they have so much oil – and they share the wealth with the people through social security and (mostly) free education and health care. I think that has much more influence on those factors than light.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#926

Post by bouke »

jsdevtom wrote: post #922

All these arguments about school times etc. My code would be eternally ridiculed if I mocked the Date object to artificially change the time, instead changing the time school started for certain months.

Changing school times cannot happen in isolation. That will also cause work times to shift to match their drop-off and pick-up times. So as work times for parents shift, so would opening hours for restaurants and shops and finally the society as a whole adjust their daily routines by an hour.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#927

Post by saurik »

jlokier wrote: post #794

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people. I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST. In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm. Someone pointed out virtu…

I mean, as a true night owl, my real problem isn't happening when I wake up: it is that when I go to bed in the morning it is extremely bad for me if dawn has already happened, so I would prefer the sun stay down for as long as possible to give me more leeway.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#928

Post by nrdvana »

jyrkesh wrote: post #923
jlokier wrote: post #794

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people. I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST. In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm. Someone pointed out virtu…

If lockdown WFH has taught me anything, it's that the times that we've set for doing activities day-to-day is totally arbitrary. I work with people across all timezones now, and it's clear that the way that I set the clock is just a pacing metric for the way that my job and the businesses around me give me the freedom to do what I need to do. If what you're saying is true, schools should start at 10a. We need to have…

Sorry, the "farming" myth is one of my ocd triggers. DST is for golf courses and has never had anything to do with farming. Businesses want more daylight hours after office people get out of work to get those people to spend more money. This is the original trigger that caused the golf lobby to push congress to enact daylight savings.

The problem is the "consistent yardstick" actually. People are accustomed to start work at "8am", and react badly to being told to start work at "7am". So we change the clock so that their yardstick "8am" occurs at solar 7am and people get out of work earlier. And people now are like "lets keep summer time" which is the exact equivalent of "lets always go to work at solar 7am".

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#930

Post by billpg »

treve wrote: post #605
hinkley wrote: post #214

I think I can say this on behalf of most developers who have ever had to fix DST errors in their code: Thank fucking god. I am shocked that none of our unit tests failed on Monday. One of the first code reviews I did here I pointed out that his tests were going to break in a few months when DST kicked in because his tests asserted that there was a 24 hour gap between two calculations. He responded this code was tempo…

> I think I can say this on behalf of most developers who have ever had to fix DST errors in their code: Thank fucking god. I think it just means for all American developers it's _more_ likely they'll introduce bugs if they cater to an international audience and there's still countries with DST. DST has always been a good way to get Devs to think about the timezone database. If people start relying on offsets more th…

Agreed. I noticed that a lot of websites only really started supporting Unicode properly once emojis started becoming popular. When Unicode was "just" accented characters, a lot of English speaking devs didn't bother and happily lived in an ASCII-only world.
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