"...a 1971 Supreme Court ruling that decreed IQ tests and other tests unrelated to the job to violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." Plenty of programming screens and interviews involve all sorts of brain puzzlers that are never used in actual programming. Does that mean they are racist too?? An IQ test would be inappropriate for an occupation that does not involve heavy analytical skills, but if that VC firm posti…
You seem fairly upset over this. Have you considered organizing like-minded individuals and forming a campaign to raise awareness on the issue until they apologize to you for apologizing for being inept bigots?
San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
41–50 of 86 posts
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#42"...a 1971 Supreme Court ruling that decreed IQ tests and other tests unrelated to the job to violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." Plenty of programming screens and interviews involve all sorts of brain puzzlers that are never used in actual programming. Does that mean they are racist too?? An IQ test would be inappropriate for an occupation that does not involve heavy analytical skills, but if that VC firm posti…
> Does that mean they are racist too?? There's a lot more to diversity and civil rights than just race, although racism is very visible. > Seems to me that preventing IQ tests from being used as a criteria for positions requiring heavy analytical work is discrimination against individuals who can do well on IQ tests. Some people just aren't test takers. Anxiety, ADHD, neurodiversity in general for example. Or maybe t…
> non-native language. Blind
If we're being brutally honest here, this makes the test a good filter if only for this reason. These are not advantageous traits. All else being equal, a sensible employer ought to prefer the candidate without these ... 'neurodivergences'.
If diversity is such a boon for business, I'm sure the company next door with less discriminating recruitment policies will be glad to take them on board...
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#43"...a 1971 Supreme Court ruling that decreed IQ tests and other tests unrelated to the job to violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." Plenty of programming screens and interviews involve all sorts of brain puzzlers that are never used in actual programming. Does that mean they are racist too?? An IQ test would be inappropriate for an occupation that does not involve heavy analytical skills, but if that VC firm posti…
> is discrimination against individuals who can do well on IQ tests. Presumably, those people could prove their worth through other methods, ideally one closely related to job at hand. If they can't do that, then maybe the IQ test was a bad proxy. > Does that mean they are racist too?? Also probably yes, but I don't want to argue that.
People usually can be evaluated on their analytic skills through other means that are more conversational and interrogatory, which in turn also assess soft-skills, which contrary to McNamara Fallacy adherents, are in truly short supply here in techville.
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#44Interestingly, an IQ test is used for entrance into Medicine: the Critical Analysis and Reasoning section of the MCAT
No, this is not an IQ test. > The CARS section is similar to verbal reasoning sections providing passages with questions testing reading comprehension. The 500-600 word passages can cover topics ranging from the social sciences to the humanities, sometimes presenting in a convoluted or biased manner requiring the reader to consider what is being written from multiple perspectives.[25] The passages are designed to dis…
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#45"...a 1971 Supreme Court ruling that decreed IQ tests and other tests unrelated to the job to violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." Plenty of programming screens and interviews involve all sorts of brain puzzlers that are never used in actual programming. Does that mean they are racist too?? An IQ test would be inappropriate for an occupation that does not involve heavy analytical skills, but if that VC firm posti…
> Does that mean they are racist too?? There's a lot more to diversity and civil rights than just race, although racism is very visible. > Seems to me that preventing IQ tests from being used as a criteria for positions requiring heavy analytical work is discrimination against individuals who can do well on IQ tests. Some people just aren't test takers. Anxiety, ADHD, neurodiversity in general for example. Or maybe t…
It's not the job of a faceless entity to decide on what criteria I should hire someone. If I value EQ I should very well be able to do a test for EQ.
IQ tests sound perfectly reasonable and don't discriminate anymore than any other mental gimmick is requested in interviews today.
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> is discrimination against individuals who can do well on IQ tests. Presumably, those people could prove their worth through other methods, ideally one closely related to job at hand. If they can't do that, then maybe the IQ test was a bad proxy. > Does that mean they are racist too?? Also probably yes, but I don't want to argue that.
As a long time hiring manager, I would never use an IQ test to determine feasibility. They simply (for the most part) confirm an aptitude for test taking, and for tech jobs I've never seen that as an intrinsic good. People usually can be evaluated on their analytic skills through other means that are more conversational and interrogatory, which in turn also assess soft-skills, which contrary to McNamara Fallacy adher…
It's not measuring aptitude of test taking, it's measuring your ability to detect and apply patterns.
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#47"...a 1971 Supreme Court ruling that decreed IQ tests and other tests unrelated to the job to violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." Plenty of programming screens and interviews involve all sorts of brain puzzlers that are never used in actual programming. Does that mean they are racist too?? An IQ test would be inappropriate for an occupation that does not involve heavy analytical skills, but if that VC firm posti…
And why not for a janitor? A smart janitor is quicker to train.
All of this for a job with a huge degree of repeatability, which doesn't require a high iq.
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#48Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#49I see nothing wrong with employers IQ-testing their future employees. What bothers me is the "online" part. Even if you manage to find an online IQ test which is not a scam focused on getting your phone number and other data, the quality is lacking.
If you just want the result for yourself test.mensa.no is pretty good and not a scam.
Re: San Francisco VC firm required job applicants to take online IQ test
#50This is patently false, and in this context (flat out stating that a hiring practice is illegal) quite arguably libelous.
The case in question:
(1) Did not rule that IQ tests violate the Civil Rights Act,
(2) Did not rule that tests unrelated to job functions violate the Civil Rights Act, and
(3) Did not characterize IQ tests are, categorically, unrelated to job functions.
What it did rule was that:
(A) The IQ tests used were unrelated to the job functions the employer in the case was using them for, and
(B) The IQ test used produced a differential adverse impact on black applicants for the positions, and
(C) Tests or other hiring criteria that produce and differential adverse impact on applicants based on a protected class (like race) and which are also unrelated (or not sufficiently related) to job functions violate the Civil Rights Act.
There are a number of subsequent cases where IQ tests have been found not to be unrelated to the job functions they were being used to screen applicants for.
I remember when sfgate was an imprint of the SF Chronicle (and the latter was a respected regional newspaper) with serious journalistic quality, but it seems to have degraded into trash where the attention to factual detail that goes into random anonymous forum posts is about all articles get.