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Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

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Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#161

Post by necovek »

necovek wrote: post #129
MarkMarine wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, I read this book: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands Which is well researched. The Nazis killed about 5.4 million, Russians and Stalin killed the rest of the 14 million people that died during this period

The Wikipedia page is pretty directly not stating that. Soviet Union was responsible for 1/3rd of the total death toll of 14M, with Nazi's Jewish victims being 5.4M. That puts the non-Jewish Nazi victims at 4M out of the total of 9.4M, and the Soviet Union victims at 4.7M (also note that this is Soviet Union of the time: while the officials behind these atrocities were likely Russian in majority, simply because Russi…

FWIW, this is a direct quote from that Wikipedia page, which is what I based my above calculations on:

> Snyder documents that Nazi Germany was responsible for about two thirds of the total number of deaths.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#162

Post by selimthegrim »

manquer wrote: post #105
cuteboy19 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many kinds of "theocracy". The islamic republic of Pakistan is significantly better than Saudi Arabia. Or would your rather have them both as "rightful Chinese territory"?

The history of Pakistan based terrorism in india suggests otherwise. Saudi Arabia funds conservative schools of Islam all over the world , however they have yet to involve themselves in the kind of state sponsored terrorism Pakistan does. For people outside these countries i would say Saudi is definitely better

Putin threatened SA for supporting Chechens

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#163

Post by beebmam »

wefarrell wrote: post #17

I'd encourage people to read the letter that Thich Nhat Hanh sent Martin Luther King on the self immolation of Vietnamese monks: https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-sea... That letter started a correspondence between the two that led to MLK speaking out against the war in Vietnam.

I find it interesting how different of an explanation this letter gives for the immolation VS what actually happened:

> Quảng Đức was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by the South Vietnamese government led by Ngô Đình Diệm, a staunch Roman Catholic. Photographs of his self-immolation circulated around the world, drawing attention to the policies of the Diệm government.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%9...

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#164

Post by jhugo »

kebab wrote: post #120
Manuel_D wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how significant that geographic fact is. Tibet is incredibly remote and rugged. Any kind of dam project large enough to have downstream impacts would be infeasible.

I'm pretty sure the Vietnamese have already began to complain about the impacts of damming in Chinese Tibet. Though I read that in the news, so take it with a grain of salt

The Mekong, the usual river that comes up when it comes to water rights, originates in Qinghai province, not Tibet. Any other rivers originating in China and flowing through VN would be even further east.

You might be confused because the Mekong (along with numerous other rivers) originates on the Tibetan Plateau, but that's a geographical feature which is vastly larger than Tibet itself.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#166

Post by exolymph »

beebmam wrote: post #163
wefarrell wrote: post #17

I'd encourage people to read the letter that Thich Nhat Hanh sent Martin Luther King on the self immolation of Vietnamese monks: https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-sea... That letter started a correspondence between the two that led to MLK speaking out against the war in Vietnam.

I find it interesting how different of an explanation this letter gives for the immolation VS what actually happened: > Quảng Đức was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by the South Vietnamese government led by Ngô Đình Diệm, a staunch Roman Catholic. Photographs of his self-immolation circulated around the world, drawing attention to the policies of the Diệm government. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%…

Can you spell out how that conflicts with Thich Nhat Hanh's letter? I'm not connecting the dots.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#167

Post by exolymph »

Aunche wrote: post #137
sixQuarks wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most fascinating things. It is close to a real life miracle in my opinion. To not even move when you’re experiencing that level of pain, it’s awe inspiring

Am I the only one who is deeply uncomfortable with the glorification of self-immolation in Tibet? These are nearly always young men, often times teenagers. One must question what sort of upbringing they must of had to sacrifice their life in that way for the sake of their religion.

In a religious value system, to die for one's faith is the utmost privilege, a combined ordeal and honor to which most of us are not equal. Martyrs demonstrate absolute devotion and dedication — and they demonstrate the true cost of principles, which most of us refuse to pay. They shame and inspire us.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#168

Post by mushbino »

technobabbler wrote: post #89
whimsicalism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were not so peaceful and introspective when they were actually in power. This is basically a CCP talking point at this point, but it is pretty true that the system they governed was essentially a serfdom-powered society. See the sort of punishments that were common for people who tried to organize the serfs in any way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungshar

Just as a side thought... if you look long enough at any country's history, you'll surely find horrors and terrible individuals. But that rarely means that country or its modern descendants would want to be "liberated" by a foreign conquerer, whether that's China or the USA. Forced assimilation is a form of genocide and people would almost always choose to be oppressed by one of their own rather than a foreigner...

Doesn't every country have official languages that they teach and conduct business in? There are very few groups who still speak their native languages after being assimilated into the US. Tibetan is still being taught in schools there along with mandarin. Wouldn't it be hard to integrate into the business community if you didn't speak the official language of business in a given country?

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#169

Post by h0l0cube »

beebmam wrote: post #163
wefarrell wrote: post #17

I'd encourage people to read the letter that Thich Nhat Hanh sent Martin Luther King on the self immolation of Vietnamese monks: https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-sea... That letter started a correspondence between the two that led to MLK speaking out against the war in Vietnam.

I find it interesting how different of an explanation this letter gives for the immolation VS what actually happened: > Quảng Đức was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by the South Vietnamese government led by Ngô Đình Diệm, a staunch Roman Catholic. Photographs of his self-immolation circulated around the world, drawing attention to the policies of the Diệm government. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%…

The quote you've provided aligns very much with the sentiment of the letter:

> I believe with all my heart that the monks who burned themselves did not aim at the death of the oppressors but only at a change in their policy. Their enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship, cupidity, hatred and discrimination which lie within the heart of man.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#170

Post by maronato »

Aunche wrote: post #137
sixQuarks wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most fascinating things. It is close to a real life miracle in my opinion. To not even move when you’re experiencing that level of pain, it’s awe inspiring

Am I the only one who is deeply uncomfortable with the glorification of self-immolation in Tibet? These are nearly always young men, often times teenagers. One must question what sort of upbringing they must of had to sacrifice their life in that way for the sake of their religion.

> In the Buddhist belief, life is not confined to a period of 60 or 80 or 100 years: life is eternal. Life is not confined to this body: life is universal. To express will by burning oneself, therefore, is not to commit an act of destruction but to perform an act of construction, i.e., to suffer and to die for the sake of one’s people.

https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-sea...

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