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Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

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Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#411

Post by mbg721 »

gchamonlive wrote: post #396
mbg721 wrote: post #392

My theory is that it's because the end-user is less familiar with how household goods and machines work than in prior generations. With chips in everything, it's hard to tell at a glance what's good and what's rubbish; you can't kick the tires. Even if you could, there have been a couple generations where buying stuff new has been cheaper than repairing it, so knowing how to sew or fix a dishwasher isn't the value pr…

Companies also actively make their products obscure or withhold replacement parts to force new purchases. This has a lot to do with right to repair.

They can only get away with it because they know most of their customers wouldn't do their own repairs anyway. In 1950, they'd say "Screw you then, I'll make the part in my garage."

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#412

Post by pjerem »

bombcar wrote: post #57
chii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an aeron chair costs about $2000 dollars (give or take). The construction is sturdy, so i expect it to last at least 10 years, if not 20 (you take care of it etc). So the amortized cost is some 100-200 dollars a year for an excellent chair. If you buy a crappy chair, i bet that the cushion starts failing after a year or so of constant sitting. So you'd probably replace it yearly, or suffer a bad chair for a few years…

This is the Sam Vimes economic theory. But there’s a corollary - if you do not need the thing to last, you may be better off with the cheapest one you can find (which may be used - and which may be better than new). This is the “but it from harbor freight, if it breaks now you know you use it enough to make it worth getting a good one”.

> if you do not need the thing to last, you may be better off with the cheapest one

Well, it's not even sure if you take resell value into account. If you need your good chair for one year, just buy it $2000 and sell it used for $1900.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#413

Post by AussieWog93 »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #326
Decker87 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Shhh men and women are exactly the same, have the same desires and strong points, men that decided at 25 that they are not men can magically become women, there should be a 50/50 split in prestigious jobs (but not construction or underwater welding), and if you disagree with any of the above you don't believe in equality and are practically a Nazi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#414

Post by tiborsaas »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #272
Strilanc wrote: post #88

It's pretty depressing how many of the comments are purely answering the title and not discussing the content of the article. In particular, the comments seem mostly focused on consumer product build quality whereas the article is more focused on e.g. businesses trying to outsource something (like same day delivery) and getting a worse result even when they pay more than doing it internally. And the cultural obstacle…

It is very common to see HN commenters only address the title not the contents of the web page, a genuine phenomenon IMO. Experiment: No titles, just URLs. What would happen. I have some experience with this as I freqently stream edit HTTP response bodies to make customised web pages using only simple HTML wrapped around only the data I am interested in, no cruft. For example, when I do web searches I process the res…

I'd personally just stop using hacker news. Clickbait is a trait of media consumption for decades now, we have to learn to live with it.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#415

Post by hvidgaard »

bombcar wrote: post #57
chii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an aeron chair costs about $2000 dollars (give or take). The construction is sturdy, so i expect it to last at least 10 years, if not 20 (you take care of it etc). So the amortized cost is some 100-200 dollars a year for an excellent chair. If you buy a crappy chair, i bet that the cushion starts failing after a year or so of constant sitting. So you'd probably replace it yearly, or suffer a bad chair for a few years…

This is the Sam Vimes economic theory. But there’s a corollary - if you do not need the thing to last, you may be better off with the cheapest one you can find (which may be used - and which may be better than new). This is the “but it from harbor freight, if it breaks now you know you use it enough to make it worth getting a good one”.

Which is a very good way to cut down the money spend on things.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#416

Post by gigaflop »

Amezarak wrote: post #305
dotancohen wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like a quality automobile, to bring the discussion closer to the article. For example, a Tesla Model 3 might cost more than a Hyundai I10, but after three years of ownership you've not had to change the oil, fill it with gas, get the tailpipe emissions inspected, possibly see the catalytic converter stolen, etc. And the difference in maintenance only grows from there, when the plugs and timing belt and seals and…

I drive another manufacturer's equivalent of the Hyundai you mention, their lowest end car that they actually quit manufacturing, and I am sure the Hyundai is in the same ballpark. I change the oil about twice a year. Over the past eight years, that has cost me about $480. I have changed the transmission fluid three times. That has cost me about $140. I've changed the air filter a couple times...not very often. Let's…

I hate to sound like I'm advocating for Sunk Cost, but this helps put numbers to a feeling I've had:

The current cost-over-time of my (and apparently your) ICE car is not meaningfully high enough to want to 'upgrade' to an all-electric. Plus, when mechanical problems eventually arise, there's already a somewhat-independent parts and labor infrastructure to lean on to get it back on the road.

On a personal level, I'm also opposed to giving Elon more money, and opposed to the idea that my car may brick itself with an auto-update. I also got a promotional 0% loan on my car, have zero intention of paying that off early, and can see this car lasting until 2028 or 2030. Unless I have kids, this car should be fine for my needs until then.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#417

Post by Retric »

oblio wrote: post #410
Retric wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i10 is a rather low end car, but the upgrade could be worth it. Finland gas prices are 8.464 USD/gallon right now. That’s unusually high but assuming 200k miles at say 35 mpg that adds up to 48,000 USD in gas over the lifetime of the vehicle. Not that electricity is free or that we have long term cost data, but I suspect the EV / plug in hybrid premium is a very easy choice in Finland.

I was curious so I did some math about this. The average car life in Finland seems to be 15.6 years (let's round that to 16, helping the case for EVs). The average distance traveled by Finnish cars, based on 2018 data, is about 13600km per year (let's make that 14000km per year, also helping the case for EVs). That works out to 224k km over the lifetime of a car. That's only 140k miles. Regarding your 35mpg (was 30mp…

I actually looked it up. 35 MPG is perhaps generous when their 2021 cars are averaging 30.9MPG, but it’s a low sample size.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/grand_i10

Finland imports a lot of used cars but: “An average car in the fleet 12.6 years of age” that suggest the car actually lasts to ~25.2 years. It’s not that simple because again they are importing and exporting used cars.

https://www.aut.fi/files/2524/Annual_statistics_of_car_marke...

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#418

Post by [deleted] »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #2

Because we have unreasonable expectations. Making things work well is hard, and thus expensive. Take a chair, for example. Anyone can make a chair: just get a bucket, turn it over, and sit on it. Boom; backless chair. Want a backrest, arms? Get a 2x4, a saw, a drill, and some bolts. An hour later: Boom; chair. You want a chair that works well? How do you even define works well for a chair? Do you need cushioning? Do…

[deleted]

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#419

Post by impalallama »

> [It] involve companies being efficient and/or products being basically as good as possible because, if it were possible for them to be better, someone would've outcompeted them and done it already.

Must be a generational thing but I don't think anyone i know (ie under 30) genuinely believes this anymore.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#420

Post by vinceguidry »

Juliate wrote: post #338
ownagefool wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the saw breaks, what if the person who knows how to use the saw leaves? There are good answers to these problems, but I find folks who find comfort in outsourcing assume it's easier for the downstream org solve them. Personal experience suggests it's often a false sense of security, and you often have to have your own experts anyway. Saw the same in software. We won't get budget to patch so let's outsource. T…

> Saw the same in software. We won't get budget to patch so let's outsource. [...] The problem is usually tech is ran by finance. Same. Where actually, the budget is right there, it's just a matter of choice and priorities: do what's right now or invest 10x in it later because you didn't take care of it when you ought to. I've been on both sides of the argument: "budget" is a magic word for those who want to skip res…

This. For every short-sighted decision made by the finance overlords, I've seen ten failures on the tech wizards' part to plan for their own future well-being. Laziness keeps them from even making a case.
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