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Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

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Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#21

Post by gjulianm »

faeriechangling wrote: post #15
saagarjha wrote: post #8

Just want to vent for a moment, because the author seems to genuinely think that people displaying vulnerability and disclosing their impostor syndrome to you is some sort of humblebrag? You don’t need to sus out some sort of hidden meaning here: the person doesn’t feel comfortable in their current environment and is probably seeking support and validation. There are surely some among us who are “faking” it, but that…

“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate…

Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression.

I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what you see with your own biases.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#22

Post by paulmooreparks »

Tzela wrote: post #19

This article makes me furious. What does the author want to tell us? That everyone who feels like an imposter, and talks about it, is an arrogant arse that only wants to brag? Maybe he is and all the people he meets are. But me as well as many of my close friends (none of them arrogant, I assure you) do feel like an imposter at their specific jobs from time to time. It's a thing that holds us back, a personal insecur…

The answer is in the top-right corner of the page:

NSFW a humorous look

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#23

Post by disambiguation »

technothrasher wrote: post #2

That write up itself sounded like the "humble brag" that the author was complaining about.

The author left out the "junior cynic"

Everything is being done wrong and they think they're being a valuable skeptic telling you so, but really they're just trying to show the world how much they get it, and are ultimately not as smart as they think they are ;)

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#24

Post by gjulianm »

paulmooreparks wrote: post #22
Tzela wrote: post #19

This article makes me furious. What does the author want to tell us? That everyone who feels like an imposter, and talks about it, is an arrogant arse that only wants to brag? Maybe he is and all the people he meets are. But me as well as many of my close friends (none of them arrogant, I assure you) do feel like an imposter at their specific jobs from time to time. It's a thing that holds us back, a personal insecur…

The answer is in the top-right corner of the page: NSFW a humorous look

I don't find the humor in diminishing a non-trivial mental health issue and making fun of the people suffering from it, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#25

Post by blitzar »

disambiguation wrote: post #23
technothrasher wrote: post #2

That write up itself sounded like the "humble brag" that the author was complaining about.

The author left out the "junior cynic" Everything is being done wrong and they think they're being a valuable skeptic telling you so, but really they're just trying to show the world how much they get it, and are ultimately not as smart as they think they are ;)

I believe that is the syndrome of being an imposter that pretends to be competent, rather than the syndrome of believing despite competence that one is an impostor.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#26

Post by ineedasername »

faeriechangling wrote: post #15
saagarjha wrote: post #8

Just want to vent for a moment, because the author seems to genuinely think that people displaying vulnerability and disclosing their impostor syndrome to you is some sort of humblebrag? You don’t need to sus out some sort of hidden meaning here: the person doesn’t feel comfortable in their current environment and is probably seeking support and validation. There are surely some among us who are “faking” it, but that…

“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate…

>implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious

Where do you get the idea that this is part of imposter syndrome? The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary.

That your own experience with people making the claim has been from people from elite schools/jobs/etc. doesn't prove anything about imposter syndrome being fundamentally a humble brag: Half the people that apply to elite schools exceed the average academic profile for admission to those schools and there are plenty of qualified candidates for most job openings in elite workplaces. Chance & luck play a huge part in in who, of the many qualified individuals, get those spots.

Why is it hard for you to understand that some people irrationally but honestly focus exclusively on the chance & luck aspects of their accomplishments? Irrationality is hardly uncommon, why is it difficult to believe that imposter syndrome isn't just another one, and instead must be some sort of bragging?

It is also possible that, in your social circles, people are simply misusing the term as a misguided way to acknowledge the role that chance & luck played in their success. Of course there's always going to be some annoying people that often use it as a chance to slip "I went to an Ivy League school" or some other brag into a conversation, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#27

Post by packetlost »

zensavona wrote: post #20
rjh29 wrote: post #9

Writeup ignores the nuances of mental health - there is a gradient between "I am definitely an imposter" and "I have imposter sydrome, these thoughts are not real". In between is a miasma of self-doubt and anxiety. And it can change depending on the time and the situation. If a friend or colleague confided in me that they felt like an imposter (but weren't sure) I would treat that as a tremendous act of trust, not an…

This. We exist in a weird situation where on one hand we are encouraged to be open and transparent about what we don't know, in order to grow and improve, but on the other hand, are paid and valued largely according to what we know. Crossing that boundary required a lot of trust at times. Company culture valuing growth over outright performance can go a long way, but is also sometimes not aligned profits.

I wonder how much of imposter syndrome is driven by environmental factors. I work in an environment that's on the bleeding edge of software, hardware, and physics and hardly anyone actually knows everything in their subject area off hand, but "I can ask someone else, or do some reading and get back to you" is not an uncommon phrase here. There's a huge difference between not being able to understand something (via referencing external sources) and being able to answer an arbitrary question about it from memory.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#28

Post by Tzela »

paulmooreparks wrote: post #22
Tzela wrote: post #19

This article makes me furious. What does the author want to tell us? That everyone who feels like an imposter, and talks about it, is an arrogant arse that only wants to brag? Maybe he is and all the people he meets are. But me as well as many of my close friends (none of them arrogant, I assure you) do feel like an imposter at their specific jobs from time to time. It's a thing that holds us back, a personal insecur…

The answer is in the top-right corner of the page: NSFW a humorous look

Ah, I see, oh so funny. haha. /s

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#29

Post by faeriechangling »

gjulianm wrote: post #21
faeriechangling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate…

Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what…

In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#30

Post by faeriechangling »

ineedasername wrote: post #26
faeriechangling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate…

>implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious Where do you get the idea that this is part of imposter syndrome? The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. That your own experience with people making the claim has been from people from elite schools/jobs/etc. doesn't prove anything about imposter syndrome…

> The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary.

So in other words the concept with imposter syndrome is that peoples worthiness is obvious?

It would be impossible for me to deny that there must be somebody out there with irrationally low self esteem, yet the fact that imposter syndrome MOSTLY affects people of privilege implies that it’s grounded in rationality. We’re it just a completely arbitrary phenomenon Joe working as a fry cook would feel it just as strongly as Bob working as a CEO.

It’s taken as a just-so foregone conclusion that if you are experiencing imposter syndrome, you’re irrational. Nobody will ever go into a therapists office, tell them they think they’re an imposter, and be told “yup sure seems that way, may as well make the best of it”. It’s taken as a self-evident truth that anything but high self esteem is an irrational state of being, and people repeat this to themselves and others.

Its all very self serving and I’m distrustful.

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