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New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

webkit.org

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Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#201

Post by inopinatus »

dmitriid wrote: post #200
inopinatus wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very heavily commented ticket (600+ comments) so it’s hard to assess all the alternative positions. However, in my view: as one of the four stewards of WHATWG, Apple have an obligation to either implement the standard, or propose a convincing alternative that the steering group can adopt. I don’t know what’s more embarrassing; that Apple tried to use market power to modify a standard after failing to do so…

They presented a clear case of why they refuse to implement them. That's how how standards work

Their reasoning was evidently not accepted.

If Apple do not wish to implement the standard, they should leave the steering group.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#202

Post by dmitriid »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #173
noja wrote: post #52

Web MIDI? Still surprised that's missing on Apple.

No WebUSB either (Or ever I guess), I know some HN people might not be a fan of it but personally I think it has huge potential to cut down on engineering waste. No need to build custom apps for every platform to just interface with a hardware device and also because it's a shared spec makes hardware devices hackable and alternative clients easy to create so devices can live on if their creators companies go under.

WebUSB (and bluetooth and HID and Serial) are not standards. They are Chrome-only non-standards.

Neither Safari nor Firefox are going to implement them.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#203

Post by Kbelicius »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #194
jimkleiber wrote: post #13

Edit: removing the snark/sarcasm I put into it. I was really hoping this announcement would include support for push notifications for PWAs. I've been trying to build a few Discourse forums and they work very well as PWAs except for the fact that iOS doesn't support PWAs sending push notifications. So here's to hoping the next iteration will.

I’m sure many of your users would welcome this feature but I’m personally grateful that I don’t get random notifications from websites.

If other users were able to get notifications from websites that doesn't mean that you would get them, especially not from random websites.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#204

Post by dmitriid »

inopinatus wrote: post #201
dmitriid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They presented a clear case of why they refuse to implement them. That's how how standards work

Their reasoning was evidently not accepted. If Apple do not wish to implement the standard, they should leave the steering group.

> If Apple do not wish to implement the standard, they should leave the steering group.

No, they shouldn't.

There was another standard, HTML Imports. It was agreed on, but then Mozilla decided not to implement them. Should Mozilla leave the steering group, too?

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#205

Post by [deleted] »

arilotter wrote: post #162

Aaaand they introduced WebGL bugs that broke our product, and iPhone users will experience these bugs until we can hack a workaround in, or until Apple acknowledges a bug report (that I have to make a minimal test case for and report, and haven't narrowed down yet), patches the issue in Safari, and decides if it's important enough to release as a 15.4.1 (which they probably won't, which means I'm stuck finding a work…

[deleted]

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#206

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #205
arilotter wrote: post #162

Aaaand they introduced WebGL bugs that broke our product, and iPhone users will experience these bugs until we can hack a workaround in, or until Apple acknowledges a bug report (that I have to make a minimal test case for and report, and haven't narrowed down yet), patches the issue in Safari, and decides if it's important enough to release as a 15.4.1 (which they probably won't, which means I'm stuck finding a work…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#207

Post by vetinari »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #194
jimkleiber wrote: post #13

Edit: removing the snark/sarcasm I put into it. I was really hoping this announcement would include support for push notifications for PWAs. I've been trying to build a few Discourse forums and they work very well as PWAs except for the fact that iOS doesn't support PWAs sending push notifications. So here's to hoping the next iteration will.

I’m sure many of your users would welcome this feature but I’m personally grateful that I don’t get random notifications from websites.

You would not; you must grant a permission to push notifications to the site first.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#208

Post by toastal »

Someone1234 wrote: post #118
muhehe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you use messenger like this? When I go to messenger.com a get pretty much just button with link play store...

Just log into Facebook.com in Chrome, enable Push Notifications, and then press new message notifications to re-launch Facebook.com.

Not recommended unless you have some isolation as you maybe leaking data through the browser.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#209

Post by inopinatus »

dmitriid wrote: post #204
inopinatus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their reasoning was evidently not accepted. If Apple do not wish to implement the standard, they should leave the steering group.

> If Apple do not wish to implement the standard, they should leave the steering group. No, they shouldn't. There was another standard, HTML Imports. It was agreed on, but then Mozilla decided not to implement them. Should Mozilla leave the steering group, too?

HTML Imports were superseded whilst still a draft.

Members of a standards body are accountable for their actions. Endorsing a standard, then undermining it, is a gross dereliction of duty. These omissions have a direct impact, and you can draw a straight line from Apple’s overwhelming institutional arrogance to Safari being the “new IE”.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#210

Post by ukfarmer »

lioeters wrote: post #180
lern_too_spel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebMIDI support in Firefox is almost complete. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=836897

I've been regularly checking that page, delighted with every step of progress as WebMIDI gets implemented in Firefox. In about:config, I have dom.webmidi.enabled set to true. I'm using this test page and waiting for the day it starts working for regular version of Firefox. https://versioduo.com/webmidi-test/

In Firefox 98.0, it actually works but is well-hidden. You not only have to turn on dom.webmidi.enabled in about:config as you've already done, but also need to manually add 'Access MIDI devices' and 'Access MIDI devices with SysEx support' permissions for the page in Tools -> Page Info before reloading, as otherwise it silently fails instead of prompting for confirmation. Hot-plugging interfaces after the browser is launched also doesn't seem to work yet.
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