Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#71

Post by mushyhammer » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 3:37 AM UTC

kbuck wrote: post #63

dataflow wrote: post #5

> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). Wow, carriers can just remotely lock an unlocked phone? How does this even work? Is this some kind of command that the SIM card sends the…

The phone wasn't remotely locked; Best Buy's entire new iPhone stock uses "flex activation" which will automatically lock the phone to the first SIM card that's inserted. Fi's primary network is T-Mobile, so for a Fi SIM, this means T-Mobile. The blame here lies on Best Buy (for not making it clear that this occurs) and Apple (for designing and supporting "flex activation" -- which will still carrier-lock the phone e…

To simplify: Best Buy sells locked phones.

The locking is already there, but the operator is chosen at the activation so that Best Buy can sell one model for any operator.

So the blame is actually Apple’s for blindly allowing this behavior, Best Buy’s for not advertising it, T-Mobile’s for allowing this through MNVO’s, and Google’s for not knowing that this happens and not allowing unlocks.

And they said my Node dependency tree was a mess!

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#72

Post by sangnoir » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 3:47 AM UTC

mistertester wrote: post #62

dataflow wrote: post #5

> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). Wow, carriers can just remotely lock an unlocked phone? How does this even work? Is this some kind of command that the SIM card sends the…

An unlocked mobile device cannot be locked to a carrier because the SIM lock mechanism is disabled, which basically tells me he got a phone that he thought was unlocked but was actually locked to T-Mobile.

> An unlocked mobile device cannot be locked to a carrier because the SIM lock mechanism is disabled

If it's a Best Buy "unlocked" iPhone it can! It was unlocked when he bought it, but locked onto the first network it was activated (Fi is T-Mobile[1] MVNO)

1. and AT&T too for fully supported Fi phones - you can get seamlessly handed over between T-Mobile, AT&T and wifi. However, iPhone are not fully supported, so they exclusively use T-Mobile.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#73

Post by alphabettsy » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 3:52 AM UTC

frogperson wrote: post #58

cschmid wrote: post #38

No carrier should be able to brick a phone without it being locked to the network. I did some research online, and it seems that the culprit here is actually Best Buy (and Apple) for selling phones as unlocked although they actually aren't: Apple sells iPhones to third parties under a 'US Reseller Flex Policy' [1], which means that they are automatically locked to the first carrier they are activated on. Nothing on t…

Try to buy a phone from best buy and not have them set it up for you. It's impossible, they will refuse to sell you the phone.

They charge extra if you don’t activate the phone at the store.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#74

Post by sangnoir » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 3:59 AM UTC

indymike wrote: post #46

WinterMount223 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not unusual. They decide that they don’t want to do business with you anymore. It can be included in their TOS that pre-arbitration is mandatory. By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination.

> By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination That's a novel theory. So if I sue the power company because a cherry picker rear-ended my 1978 land yacht they can just shut me off in -20 winter weather because I sued them?

> That's a novel theory.

This is not novel at all - patent cross-licensing has been using similar language for decades: "Your license to our bag of patents is valid unless you take us to court - then all bets are off". It's a very short jump from patent licensing to Terms of Service, I bet there's a lot of related case law.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#75

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:04 AM UTC

frogperson wrote: post #58

cschmid wrote: post #38

No carrier should be able to brick a phone without it being locked to the network. I did some research online, and it seems that the culprit here is actually Best Buy (and Apple) for selling phones as unlocked although they actually aren't: Apple sells iPhones to third parties under a 'US Reseller Flex Policy' [1], which means that they are automatically locked to the first carrier they are activated on. Nothing on t…

Try to buy a phone from best buy and not have them set it up for you. It's impossible, they will refuse to sell you the phone.

[deleted]

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#76

Post by timcederman » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

bschwindHN wrote: post #35

For those who live outside the states but go to visit every once in awhile, what do you do for sim cards? I live in Japan and currently I switch to a google fi sim card when I visit, but it's far from ideal.

eSIMs are super easy - I was able to get a T-mobile eSIM online.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#77

Post by kyleee » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:18 AM UTC

muh_gradle wrote: post #20

5 years ago I used Google Fi and it was just awful. I bought a Nexus 5x on a Google Fi deal. Fi was super unreliable, customer service was dumpster fire garbage, and multiple hardware issues with the Nexus 5x and the sim card for whatever reason. There were even recalls and class action lawsuits with the 5x and the 6p that I missed out on. Not at all surprised that Google Fi is still terrible.

the 6p was a great phone though and at the time the ease of use with international travel was a real treat

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#78

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:21 AM UTC

mistertester wrote: post #62

dataflow wrote: post #5

> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). Wow, carriers can just remotely lock an unlocked phone? How does this even work? Is this some kind of command that the SIM card sends the…

An unlocked mobile device cannot be locked to a carrier because the SIM lock mechanism is disabled, which basically tells me he got a phone that he thought was unlocked but was actually locked to T-Mobile.

Keep in mind that Apple’s modern SIM lock implementation is built into the OS and has nothing to do with the modem being locked, so all assumptions about modem locks no longer apply.

Apple’s SIM lock “feature” checks in with Apple over the internet (including over the disallowed SIM, since the modem itself is always unlocked) and refuses to let you proceed if the current SIM doesn’t match the policy returned by the backend.

Obviously the policy can be changed at any time. This is also how this “flex carrier lock” is implemented.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#79

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:24 AM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #27

mig39 wrote: post #8

This happened to me with a nameless Canadian carrier. I bought an iPhone, unlocked, from Apple. It worked great with many SIMs in different countries. At some point, the screen broke on the phone, and Apple did an "AppleCare express replacement" where they sent me a replacement phone and I sent my broken one back. The next SIM I put in the phone locked the phone to that carrier. It took like 5 minutes with Apple supp…

This is the correct answer - Apple can unlock and may even do so - and if not there are darker methods of doing the unlocks. Not sure I wouldn’t try it for a $1,100 brick …

Apple will unlock it if it’s an obvious mistake like this case - seems like the replacement phone’s activation policy wasn’t set to what the original phone had.

However in the OP’s case it won’t help - this isn’t a bug, it’s Best Buy scamming customers by selling them locked phones and passing them off as unlocked. Apple will just tell you to contact Best Buy.

Re: Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

#80

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 4:25 AM UTC

theposey wrote: post #45

This isn't bricked at all. They suspended the cellular service and it's carrier locked. Needs a re-title, pretty clickbaity.

Keep in mind that unlike legacy modem-level carrier locks that merely disable the modem, Apple’s implementation won’t even allow you to proceed past the setup screen without satisfying the SIM lock system first. The phone is literally a brick without it.