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New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

webkit.org

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Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#131

Post by jimkleiber »

xfalcox wrote: post #110
jimkleiber wrote: post #13

Edit: removing the snark/sarcasm I put into it. I was really hoping this announcement would include support for push notifications for PWAs. I've been trying to build a few Discourse forums and they work very well as PWAs except for the fact that iOS doesn't support PWAs sending push notifications. So here's to hoping the next iteration will.

As the person working on PWA stuff on Discourse I can assure we will be adding push support in iOS as soon as it's ready. It's a shame this is taking so long on iOS devices...

Oh, hey! Yes, from what I've seen on Discourse, you all are probably more excited for this than I am. Thank you for doing this.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#132

Post by alwillis »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #68
donatj wrote: post #57

> WebKit added support for lazy-loading images with the loading attribute on the element, providing web developers with an easy way to instruct the browser to defer loading certain images until the user scrolls near them Maybe there's hope that I can then just turn this off on a browser level? I've got gigabit internet at home, and your images popping in on scroll makes it feel like I'm on dial up. Lazy loading image…

If you don’t have gigabit internet (i.e. most people), then it’s not so user hostile.

People forget that latency impacts web performance and not just bandwidth.

Also lazy loading enables the bandwidth that is available to be used on critical path items and not on images further down the page, especially if they’re non-origin images that require the overhead of another TLS handshake + connection, etc.

You don’t get the benefit of HTTP/2 prioritization with non-origin connections.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#133

Post by musicale »

stimpson_j_cat wrote: post #64

> added support for the element Might as well get started on those uBlock filters! dialog[class*="newsletter" i] dialog[id*="newsletter" i] dialog[class*="social" i] dialog[id*="social" i] dialog[id*="mailchimp" i]

Every so often I daydream about a magical web browser with my preferred settings:

[x] Block javascript popups and scrollovers

[x] Block newsletter and notification solicitations

[x] Really block all forms of auto-playing video in a way that actually works

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#134

Post by comex »

heavyset_go wrote: post #126
CharlesW wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple likes to trot out Facebook as a privacy boogeyman when it comes to defending their App Store business model, but when their business model necessitates that Facebook has invasive native apps, suddenly they're silent. Are you joking? https://www.macrumors.com/2022/02/03/facebook-10-billion-in-...

Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here. PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place, but that's not a solution Apple would allow.

True, a PWA wouldn’t have been able to get the unique device ID, which is (I think) the only technical effect of the App Tracking Transparency toggle added last year. But that toggle also has legal effects that go further [1]. For instance, apps can’t “[display] targeted advertisements in your app based on user data collected from apps and websites owned by other companies”, even that data was correlated with your app session based on, say, account name or email address rather than device IDs. But the only reason Apple is in a position to impose this kind of requirement is that they’re a gatekeeper for iOS apps. With web apps, short of government action, the best you can do ask nicely, and we all know how the Do Not Track header ended up.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/user-privacy-and-data-..., “Asking Permission to Track”

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#135

Post by inopinatus »

culi wrote: post #49
nikodunk wrote: post #17

Now all major browsers support the element without polyfill. Yay! https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/di...

And just like that, Safari has surpassed Chrome in interop 2022 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022

Webkit is not committed to fully implementing the HTML Living Standard, or more precisely, they are committed to killing off the parts they don't like by declining to implement them. They point-blank refuse to implement Customized Built-in Elements, for example, and in such (unusually, for the context) vehement, uncompromising, and unconstructive language¹ that I can only surmise some Apple apparatchik's fragile ego would be irreparably shattered by even contemplating an amendment of this position.

Thanks to such attitudes, Safari remains the "new IE", the problem browser for which developers must find workarounds.

(1) e.g. https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509 and other forums besides

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#136

Post by blacklivsmatr »

comex wrote: post #134
heavyset_go wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here. PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place, but that's not a solution Apple would allow.

True, a PWA wouldn’t have been able to get the unique device ID, which is (I think) the only technical effect of the App Tracking Transparency toggle added last year. But that toggle also has legal effects that go further [1]. For instance, apps can’t “[display] targeted advertisements in your app based on user data collected from apps and websites owned by other companies”, even that data was correlated with your ap…

With a web-app, you can write an extension. With native, no such luck.

https://www.fbpurity.com/

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#137

Post by JimDabell »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #68
donatj wrote: post #57

> WebKit added support for lazy-loading images with the loading attribute on the element, providing web developers with an easy way to instruct the browser to defer loading certain images until the user scrolls near them Maybe there's hope that I can then just turn this off on a browser level? I've got gigabit internet at home, and your images popping in on scroll makes it feel like I'm on dial up. Lazy loading image…

If you don’t have gigabit internet (i.e. most people), then it’s not so user hostile.

It’s even more user hostile when your connection is not great.

It’s horrible UX when you open a bunch of tabs in the background and then when you try to read them, they haven’t loaded properly. Especially if you are on a train or something where your Internet connection is spotty and they could have loaded at the point you opened the tab, but now they cannot.

The main improvement here is that if it is built into the browser instead of implemented individually on each site with JavaScript, there’s a better chance you’ll be able to disable it globally.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#138

Post by CharlesW »

heavyset_go wrote: post #126
CharlesW wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple likes to trot out Facebook as a privacy boogeyman when it comes to defending their App Store business model, but when their business model necessitates that Facebook has invasive native apps, suddenly they're silent. Are you joking? https://www.macrumors.com/2022/02/03/facebook-10-billion-in-...

Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here. PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place, but that's not a solution Apple would allow.

> Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here

I don't understand why that's unexpected when a core idea of the App Store model is that Apple can better protect its customers against bad actors.

> PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place…

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. My assumption is that a rounding error's percentage of Facebook users choose the PWA over the native app on platforms which support both, like Android. If you have actual data on this, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#139

Post by JimDabell »

noja wrote: post #52

Web MIDI? Still surprised that's missing on Apple.

They have decided to not implement it:

https://webkit.org/status/#feature-web-midi

Note that Web Midi isn’t any kind of standard; it’s not even on the standards track. From the specification:

> This document is merely a W3C-internal document. It has no official standing of any kind and does not represent consensus of the W3C Membership.

— https://webaudio.github.io/web-midi-api/

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