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Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

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Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#31

Post by matt_heimer »

smeej wrote: post #16

Hoping this is something that doesn't need to be said here, but just in case: This is why you should NEVER provide personal information over the phone if you didn't initiate the call. It doesn't matter if your caller ID says it's your doctor's office or your bank or whatever. Hang up and call them back at the number you normally use to reach them, from their website or the back of your credit/debit card for example.…

So many callers get offended when you try to tell them that you aren't going to give you personal information to some random caller unless they can validate themselves first. And many times their direct call back number (if they have one) isn't the one published to the company website. I get the feeling that most people don't question them.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#32

Post by eli »

lkbm wrote: post #9
gvb wrote: post #3

STIR/SHAKEN is supposed to stop the spoofing. For an explanation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN

> The Federal Communications Commission requires use of the protocols by June 30, 2021 Spoofing still exists, though. Is the issue now that our phones are backwards-compatible with the insecure system?

That deadline has been repeatedly extended

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#33

Post by egberts1 »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #14
gvb wrote: post #3

STIR/SHAKEN is supposed to stop the spoofing. For an explanation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN

STIR/SHAKEN hasn't worked correctly or stopped robocalls like promised. Congress basically told everyone that this was the answer and would stop robocallers for good, but in reality did barely anything at all. The real solution is to label robocallers as terrorist and sanction countries with large amounts of robocalls for sponsoring terorrism. Before long, everyone will be too scared to even consider working in a rob…

And if they do not comply, to follow through with a Hellfire missile, right? /s

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#34

Post by jontas »

smeej wrote: post #16

Hoping this is something that doesn't need to be said here, but just in case: This is why you should NEVER provide personal information over the phone if you didn't initiate the call. It doesn't matter if your caller ID says it's your doctor's office or your bank or whatever. Hang up and call them back at the number you normally use to reach them, from their website or the back of your credit/debit card for example.…

It can even be a problem if you do initiate the call. My mom got taken in by a scam where she googled "American Express phone number" and a scammer's website or paid ad (she isn't sure which it was) was showing at the top of the results with the wrong number.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#35

Post by lowlevel »

jaywalk wrote: post #26
skyde wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would it be possible to tell my carrier to simply block all call that are not (STIR/SHAKEN)? If all my friend are on carrier that support it, I am not interested in receiving call from people that are not on a carrier that support it.

I highly doubt any carrier would offer this, especially with the current adoption being where it's at. You'd be better off using your phone's capabilities to restrict calls to only your contacts.

This is what I do, and feel is the only solution now. Phone always on DND/only allow contacts to ring. A whitelist approach if you will.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#36

Post by cjauvin »

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

I live in Canada, and I and most people I know receive spam calls from spoofed numbers on a semi-regular basis. Sometimes the number only a few digits off from my number, but other times it has a name like TOLL FREE SERV. A common lure is claiming they are Service Canada or Canada Revenue Agency (or the nonexistent Revenue Canada), and the call will open with nonsensical threats like “A warrant has been placed in you…

I live in Canada too, and these particular calls are rapidly destroying the notion of answering a number that is not in your contact list.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#37

Post by grendelt »

smeej wrote: post #16

Hoping this is something that doesn't need to be said here, but just in case: This is why you should NEVER provide personal information over the phone if you didn't initiate the call. It doesn't matter if your caller ID says it's your doctor's office or your bank or whatever. Hang up and call them back at the number you normally use to reach them, from their website or the back of your credit/debit card for example.…

This.

A while ago, my wife got a call from a collections agency on my phone. They asked for her name, I asked "which one?"

She said "I can only talk to ____."

I said, "I understand but which one would are you looking for the older or younger?"

"I can't share that information."

"Then I can't put you in touch with who you're looking for if you can't tell me who you're looking for."

"I can only speak with ____."

I said "Ok, tell me the last 4 of her social and I'll know which one you're looking for."

"That's private information, sir."

"No, that's the public portion of a social security number. Tell you what, since you're learning how this works, I'll make it easy on you: I'll give you the first digit and you tell me the last. That way we both know we have the same 'protected information'. If I give you the wrong starting number or you give me the wrong ending number, we both know we have the wrong person."

"I need to speak with _____."

I gave her the starting number but she didn't budge.

I finally said "okay, since you can't verify who you're looking for, I'm going to just tell you you have the wrong number. This is my cell phone, not ____'s. You may send a letter, but this is not the correct phone number for who you're looking for. Please, do not call me again."

While all this was going on she gave me the name of the collection company which I was able to Google and determine it was a legit operation and located not too far away. A medical provider never got our correct address, but it just showed me how overly trusting some companies expect people to be. Nah, this is a two-way verification. If you're gonna call me, you need to give a little to prove to me you're legit.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#38

Post by mef »

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

I live in Canada, and I and most people I know receive spam calls from spoofed numbers on a semi-regular basis. Sometimes the number only a few digits off from my number, but other times it has a name like TOLL FREE SERV. A common lure is claiming they are Service Canada or Canada Revenue Agency (or the nonexistent Revenue Canada), and the call will open with nonsensical threats like “A warrant has been placed in you…

on iOS, the "Silence Unknown Callers" feature has completely eliminated this for me.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#39

Post by notreallyserio »

I wish phone calls came with a verified (cryptographically) description of the route a call took to get to me. Then I could use a library/app to filter by source or by bad actor (providers that lie about the route). That would enable services like UBlock Origin, allowing for user-generated blocklists.

Re: Ask HN: How can scam callers fake a mobile phone number?

#40

Post by jamal-kumar »

Back in the day you used to be able to spoof caller ID using in-band signalling. it was like a few fun sounding handshake tones and some static-sounding data that you would play after the official one, and that was called orange boxing. That was the Bell 202 FSK signal and I remember hearing it on landlines up until a decade ago if the phone was picked up as soon as it started ringing.

In Canada caller ID also includes the name along with the number from Nortel equipment, while in the USA it's just number. Nobody I know has a landline anymore except for businesses because if it's just the odd crazy person who still makes a super annoying life-interrupting phone call, more than half of calls are just fraud shit with spoofed caller ID and everything. It's so easy you could get started doing it yourself with freepbx installed on some 5$ VPS within minutes. Honestly we need better telephony systems, but everything is being completely superseded by chat apps anyways. Again only crazy people give me actual phone calls anymore and I have two lines between two countries.

Fun things to do to the fraudsters: Talk really quietly and when they are like 'sir i cannot hear you' put yourself on speakerphone and YELL into the phone as hard as you can, and you win the game when you can hear them rip their headset off in ear pain because they turned their volume up to hear you. Either that or ask them what they're wearing until they get mad at you and call you homophobic things.

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