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Fed takes over AIG

dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: Fed takes over AIG

#81

Post by natrius »

helveticaman wrote: post #60
natrius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If there's a need (market), new companies would have sprouted up." You aren't even addressing the given reasoning for the bailouts. Meaningless platitudes don't solve problems.

I don't think he/she has to address the reasoning for the bailouts, or that he/she used meaningless platitudes. He/she even cited an example. You don't have to address the other sides reasoning because it's hard to find every flaw in an opponent's argument.

If you ignore the the actual reasons why the bailouts happened, how can you argue against them? Sure, the bailouts preserved weak companies, which is a bad thing, but you can't just ignore the benefits of the bailouts and say they shouldn't have happened. That in no way resembles an argument, though "meaningless platitudes" may have been an incorrect characterization.

"You don't have to address the other sides reasoning because it's hard to find every flaw in an opponent's argument."

But the other side has put out a public statement explaining their actions. This isn't about predicting how someone is going to make their case. The case has already been made. At the very least, you have to address their justifications.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#83

Post by gills »

mtw wrote: post #70
aston wrote: post #15

"The Federal Reserve plans to offer an $85 billion bridge loan to the American International Group in return for control of the ailing insurance giant..." Nice redefinition of AIG.

$85billion!!! where do the Reserve get the money? do they print it? gold reserves? next year's taxes? asia?

they get it FROM YOU.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#84

Post by helveticaman »

natrius wrote: post #81
helveticaman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he/she has to address the reasoning for the bailouts, or that he/she used meaningless platitudes. He/she even cited an example. You don't have to address the other sides reasoning because it's hard to find every flaw in an opponent's argument.

If you ignore the the actual reasons why the bailouts happened, how can you argue against them? Sure, the bailouts preserved weak companies, which is a bad thing, but you can't just ignore the benefits of the bailouts and say they shouldn't have happened. That in no way resembles an argument, though "meaningless platitudes" may have been an incorrect characterization. "You don't have to address the other sides reason…

What about the example of Swedish banks that failed and were not bailed out? Surely that serves as a counter-example.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#85

Post by gills »

sabat wrote: post #26
yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What treatable diseases are poor/middle-class people dying of, that could be prevented by socialism?

Cancer. Diabetes. Yadda yadda. Do you know how many people are not insured and cannot afford insurance? ("Go to the emergency room" is not a health plan.) Do you know how many people with serious illnesses are turned down by their own insurance companies every year? I'm not saying socialism is an automatic answer, but it'd better than this mess.

I don't know the answers to our questions. What I do know is that developing effective treatments that are initially affordable only to a few is better for our species than accepting mediocrity across the board.

I would rather die form cancer at home with my family than in a hospital with people who are only pretending to treat me.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#86

Post by fallentimes »

helveticaman wrote: post #59
fallentimes wrote: post #24

Serious question that is actually very related: if you had to move to a foreign country and work on your internet start up, where would you move? Why?

Chile, because it is a capitalist country. Costs are similar to India, but the weather is Californian and taxes are really low. Still, though, SV is a better choice. Don't move to Chile to start up.

I'm asking in case it ends up not being the best choice in the future :). Also, giving 40% of one's earnings to the government is _always_ unacceptable. So hopefully that never happens here.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#87

Post by fallentimes »

ashu wrote: post #48
fallentimes wrote: post #24

Serious question that is actually very related: if you had to move to a foreign country and work on your internet start up, where would you move? Why?

Your question should be an independent Ask YC thread. I want to know the answers too. (and I have none!)

All you; I've been a post whore this week. I don't want people to get sick of me :P.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#88

Post by gills »

helveticaman wrote: post #57
sd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify, I meant that the other course might result in much more massive decline than has already happened. Think 22 sigma level -- like the '87 crash. Bailing out distressed financial firms is almost expected now. Thus, if it doesn't happen, then a lot of market participants may reevaluate their choice to invest in firms with heavy debt. Obviously, these bail outs have their costs, such as the value of money…

The market collapse of a whole economy? How's Google going to get torched by this? Or Boeing? Or most exporters?

In the short term the lack of credit availability could dent manufacturers, but those businesses that make real things that people want should be ok if they can survive until credit is again available to their customers.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#89

Post by albertcardona »

azharcs wrote: post #79
quasimojo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where does the treasury and fed get the money? THEY PRINT IT a 1982 law lets treasury notes be redeemed with CREATED accounts, as in one of the partner banks of the reserve simply creates a new account by punching in the digits, and they assign it to you once again, this is law since 1982 this is why US treasuries have 100% certainty inside the USA while the US dollar still exists

Wouldn't that increase inflation.

Inflation is yet another form of taxation. A subtle, criminal one, that undermines your savings while you sleep.

Re: Fed takes over AIG

#90

Post by sown »

sown wrote: post #67
sabat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancer. Diabetes. Yadda yadda. Do you know how many people are not insured and cannot afford insurance? ("Go to the emergency room" is not a health plan.) Do you know how many people with serious illnesses are turned down by their own insurance companies every year? I'm not saying socialism is an automatic answer, but it'd better than this mess.

I think people are talking past each other at this point. When you say "socialism" what exactly do you mean? I think it is one of those words that has lost its meaning since there are so many different definitions of it and we're not always on the same page.

I'm being down modded for this? It's an honest question.

edit: :( what did i do?!

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