Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
No it most definitely doesn’t make them combatants.
No post body was provided.
Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
111–120 of 202 posts
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#112Why is seizing property without due process okay when we do it? Is it the same reason that dissenting opinions can’t be heard because they’re dangerous propaganda?
Because it helps get rid of Putin and its something we are able to do. Getting rid of Putin is our objective right now. Is it technically ethical and nice? Maybe not, that can be debated. But I don't see why we should care. Russia's also seizing foreign property as well as invading another country, if you do want to have that ethical argument. This is how the world works, I don't think we should get bogged down in wh…
So wait... if we europeans wanted to get rid of eg. clinton for bombing in yugoslavia, and then bush of the middle eastern crap (well, technically both bushes), we can just take away property of random rich americans?
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are brazen calls for literal assassination of Russian leaders with hundreds of upvotes on Reddit, but when a veteran soldier confronts a former US president for pulling pretty much the same shit, he gets dragged and thrown out: https://old.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/td5wgj/ir...
It's almost as if the context differs between upvoting on a forum and threatening a leader to their face in their own country, in a room full of their supporters. I'm certain that if a Russian did the same in front of Putin, the results would be similar if not worse.
> threatening a leader to their face in their own country, in a room full of their supporters
Have we seen the same video? There's no threat. He said "You lied" and "You need to apologize".
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#114Where was all this reaction in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia?!
Russia is TO THIS FUCKING DAY in Georgia and nobody cares about it.
Georgia and Ukraine are just 1,167 km = 725 miles away but the West only plays world super police when something near to the EU border happens or if the country has a lot of Oil.
I am really sick of the politics of both sides. If the US would have done something in 2008, than Russia wouldn't even dare to touch Ukraine.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Because they are American? The case against the Russian oligarchs is better because they are quasi state actors, however, but the case against the Russian oligarchs looks bad too.
And Bezos, Bloomberg, Ellison, Thiel, etc. aren't quasi state actors?
They're not. Do you think Biden has been sitting upon his throne for the past 22 years, giving orders to Thiel and Bezos so they can act on his behalf and in return he can give them a little more wealth/power?
The people you quoted have a lot of power and influence. That doesn't make them state actors. The difference is extreme. If you genuinely don't understand that difference, I invite you to read "The Dictator's Handbook" by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, which nicely explains (among other many interesting things) how dictators and authoritarians wield and share power. You can apply those lessons to how Russia and its oligarchs work.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#116So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…
There are brazen calls for literal assassination of Russian leaders with hundreds of upvotes on Reddit, but when a veteran soldier confronts a former US president for pulling pretty much the same shit, he gets dragged and thrown out: https://old.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/td5wgj/ir...
The guy is massively upvoted on reddit though.
Like, you're trying to frame it as some kind of hypocrisy, but it's not a stretch to imagine that the people who rage against russia on reddit and the crowds who go to Bush fundraisers don't overlap much.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#117So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…
> seize private property
Mind your tongue. It's not seizing, it is just a special legal operation. Absolutely nothing to do with seizing.
I'd also want to remind what Karl Popper said about Paradox of Tolerance.
" Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#118well, offtop by Russophilis is getting out of hand. Russia was aggresor, in 1994 in Chechnya IIRC 1999 Chechnya, Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014, Ukraine 2022. Russian FSB do terrorists attack on their own citizen [1]. Case is simple, goverment is a war crime and was for 28 years. There is a whole generation of young people brainwashed by their parents with roots back to 1800s tsarist propaganda. Russians need to step up…
Now do usa!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...
But when america does it, it's a "war for peace!" - https://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1995/11...
Look, we all agree war is bad... I live in the balkans, and I had american planes flying above my roof, bombing a country 300km away not that long ago... not to forget all of our "local" wars before that. But saying that americans are any better than russians or vice-versa is a huge lie. Russians atleast had a "weak" period in the 90s, where they didn't do this shit, until they got their economy fixed a bit, americans didn't stop even then.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#119Where was all this reaction in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia?! Russia is TO THIS FUCKING DAY in Georgia and nobody cares about it. Georgia and Ukraine are just 1,167 km = 725 miles away but the West only plays world super police when something near to the EU border happens or if the country has a lot of Oil. I am really sick of the politics of both sides. If the US would have done something in 2008, than Russia wo…
Shouldn't you be happy there is at least a reaction now?
I could say the exact same of Turkey and Cyprus. Being sick of the politics "on both sides" only serves to lessen the CURRENT reaction. It's not useful.
You want payback for Georgia? I want payback for a lot of other things that didn't get their deserved political reaction. NOW is better than "let's just not do it cause we didn't do it last time".
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#120Without questioning if seizing the property of Russian billionaires is justified or not, if you believe in equity, the property of American billionaires should also be seized by the other countries for the nearly 200 000 civilian deaths in Iraq (which is much worse, but the US-led war lasted longer). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Ira...
Putting aside the confiscation question, it’s morally obtuse to liken Iraqi civilian deaths, the top cause of which per that link was execution after capture by insurgent & other non-US-aligned forces, with Ukrainian deaths from indiscriminate Russian shelling of civilian neighborhoods.
I seem to recall the US' indiscriminate shelling of Iraqi civilian neighborhoods broadcast with patriotic pomp and pride on the news not all that long ago.
I even saw some brown people getting murdered by US forces on TV in my local McDonalds at 4 in the day one time.