Well then, don't act surprised when all Western companies and assets get nationalized.
Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
61–70 of 202 posts
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#62So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…
Wait until you find out about civil forfeiture.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#63well, offtop by Russophilis is getting out of hand. Russia was aggresor, in 1994 in Chechnya IIRC 1999 Chechnya, Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014, Ukraine 2022. Russian FSB do terrorists attack on their own citizen [1]. Case is simple, goverment is a war crime and was for 28 years. There is a whole generation of young people brainwashed by their parents with roots back to 1800s tsarist propaganda. Russians need to step up and deal with their horrible country past. I, as a polish, kinda has a natural degree in sovietology and Moscow war crimes throughout the ages.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with some incovenciencse. But there are people dying right now.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#64Should the world seize the assets of Silicon Valley billionaires over the US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and other actions in MENA? Probably.
Why? Because they are American? The case against the Russian oligarchs is better because they are quasi state actors, however, but the case against the Russian oligarchs looks bad too.
And Bezos, Bloomberg, Ellison, Thiel, etc. aren't quasi state actors?
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#65Without questioning if seizing the property of Russian billionaires is justified or not, if you believe in equity, the property of American billionaires should also be seized by the other countries for the nearly 200 000 civilian deaths in Iraq (which is much worse, but the US-led war lasted longer). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Ira...
That doesn't follow.
It's perfectly consistent to believe in equity and believe that neither the Russian nor the American billionaires' assets should be seized.
You can't just handwave away one side and say "regardless of whether you believe it's justified for group A, you have to believe it's justified for group B".
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#66So much whattaboutism in this thread. We are at war. Seizing property of the other belligerents is a very normal thing to do in a war. Russia is currently seizing assets from American companies who leave the country.
Russia is currently bombing Ukrainian hospitals. This is a somewhat tame escalation in that light.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is forcing them to retire, I for one would be interested to see what these productive people would come up with when they shift their goal from making a great profit to making a great social impact.
> No one is forcing them to retire > shift their goal from making a great profit to making a great social impact who says they will shift?
I'd be willing to bet that at least some of them would. Instinctively I would also guess that it would lead to a better outcome on average, but as I'm less certain about that which is why I would like to see it tested out.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#68I always thought: Wow they seized his yacht; I never thought that these people had a bunch of these billion dollar things floating around... So they seized one of his many, many boats. I have to agree with everybody else in this thread, not a big fan of blaming the people of Russia for what their dictator does; even if they are in his so called "inner circle". Perhaps these people can pressure Putin to change his min…
US and Russia unites in cheering for Russian oligarchs being robbed (ordinary Russians, especially the war-supporting pseudo proletariat, never really valued wealth or private property and would happily watch oligarchs parting with their toys; and the US citizens think something productive is being done). The rich themselves would suffer next to no drop in their quality of life. They probably got rich by exploiting Russian resources, but most likely denounce Putin and the war anyway.
It is a weird development, but all things considered not the worst thing that's happening.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#69Well then, don't act surprised when all Western companies and assets get nationalized.
Russia already announced they are doing so for any company that shuts down operations (even temporarily) in Russia that have 25% or more foreign control last week.
This talk now is in response to Russia acting in that manner first.
Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets
#70A small tip to HN readers: Whataboutism is key to Russian propaganda. I'm not saying people here are Russian trolls, but if your key reaction to "What's happening in Ukraine is shit and we need to do something NOW" is to say "Oh but what about what the US did in the past?", you're amplifying Russian propaganda, and it may be because you've been hearing Russian-funded articles/media, directly or indirectly. Nothing, i…
You are wrong. If a nation does something that other nations do, it is completely unjustified to pretend that their actions are wrong. The international community normalizes actions through actions. You might not like the fact that some particular action is normalized but you cannot suddenly villianize a nation for doing the same that other ("our allies") nations do regularly.
Why not? They are enemies, not friends. We should vilify our enemies and celebrate our allies. This is the nature of the world. Sometimes you must draw a line in the sand and pick a side. It is not possible to straddle the middle and try to apply the same sets of rules to every actor; each circumstance is different and should be treated with the nuance it requires.