My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age • Hacker News Board

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#111

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:37 AM UTC

II2II wrote: post #79

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

Radarr sounds like the type of software that no vendor would accept in their app store. Why would you expect it to be available through a Linux package manager? As for the convoluted installation process under Linux, that is on the developer. They can provide packages directly, create a distribution agnostic application, or provide an installer. All of these approaches are in common use under Linux. None of them requ…

>Radarr sounds like the type of software that no vendor would accept in their app store. Why would you expect it to be available through a Linux package manager?

I don't. I expect it and many other applications to remain difficult to install, so I expect most users to remain on PC. I am not levelling blame on anyone or anything. I am simply explaining how the user experience is hostile in Linux.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#112

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:39 AM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #41

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

Is servarr in the windows store? If not, it might as well not exist. Just because users have been trained to download .exe's from random, unvetted websites that does not make it any less insane. See android, see iOS (and by now also windows) who all agree how insane that is.

You call easy installation of applications insane. I call convoluted and technically difficult installation insane. I represent the vast majority of PC users, and I don't think you'll ever convince us that a 10 step CLI process to install an application is a good thing.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#113

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

iknowstuff wrote: post #11

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

This is true, although the Windows model of .exe installers , which require admin permissions, isn't even the one to follow. The macOS, and especially the App Store model is far more user friendly. The non-esoteric distros and GNOME[1] recognize it and ship with a software manager akin to an app store. Those install snaps or flatpaks with one click. That's how you'd install Steam and all of its dependencies like Prot…

I am fully onboard with the macOS model.

You highlight why this will forever remain a problem: letting developers choose to provide a user-hostile install method means that some of them will. The solution here is mandating a simple install method, but I don't think enough distros would get on board with that. Most Linux developers like things just the way they are.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#114

Post by Agingcoder » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:43 AM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #71

trinsic2 wrote: post #2

Here I am, back in Windows. I’m realizing that my journey to a Freedom-Of-Choice Desktop environment is riddled with traps from my past. My familiarity with the apps and processes of Windows haunts my every move. It’s challenging to find replacements and workarounds for what I used to be able to do… But then my determination kicked in. If I really think about it, would it be such a loss to switch to a Linux alternati…

I tried running on Linux (Ubuntu) and using Reaper, so I don't have to use Windows with it's BS. Getting the audio stack running was a nightmare, and it always just sounded bad. Something was wrong with the drivers that caused a ton of latency and weird compression. It appeared to be something to do with everyone's favorite default audio system: Pulseaudio (have a look sometime at how many troubleshooting steps there…

Sound is the primary reason why I eventually left the Linux desktop - it broke on a regular basis, and randomly, because of pulseaudio. It worked in some apps, and not in others. In the end, I needed to get some work done, and not constantly fix my workstation, so I went down the OSX route I never looked back (no need to tinker at all, and I kind of understand the UI, while I find Windows to be very confusing, and to require tinkering ).

I started using Linux in 1996, used a Linux desktop as my main box between 2001 and 2011, but, much to my chagrin, it just never reached any kind of 'it just works' level. Sure, there were good parts ( interesting UI ideas ), but the moment you started plugging/doing funky things into your computer ( printers, bluetooth, power outlets, wifi, speakers, fonts, multiple screens, 3d cards, etc you name it ), things started not working as expected.

Note I still use a Linux workstation at the office. It still doesn't work well for anything which is not terminal oriented, it still loses its graphics settings on a regular basis, I still run into graphics driver issues, but I have a windows box next to it to handle everything else.

The one thing I really miss on windows/OSX is i3, which completely changed my view of windowed environments ( I gave up on Gnome/KDE eons ago ).

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#115

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:45 AM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #103

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

Linux isn't necessarily for you and that's fine. The Linux community doesn't actually need to change any of this to succeed where it succeeds and that is among CLI-friendly power users and developers. As to your specific issue, I just use the container image of Radar on my server, which is what most selfhosters should be using, since it's non-polluting to your local system.

Completely fair. My comment was in context of the article and comments. Many Linux users seem interested in growing Linux market share, or declaring that "this is the year of Linux." It will never be the year of Linux while basic tasks continue to complicated multi-step CLI adventures.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#116

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:47 AM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #16

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

> In Linux I have to follow a reasonably complicated and time consuming installation process, You don't /have/ to, you choose to. Docker provides a way easier path for all the *arr's. Not to mention removal is equally easy - with windows can you be SURE all the registry stuff is gone?

Docker still requires the CLI. Well, unless I install Portainer. Which also requires the CLI.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#117

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:48 AM UTC

shikoba wrote: post #21

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

> Bottom line: make it so users never ever, for any reason ever, need to use the CLI. The more I think about, the more I'm convinced that it's an unconscious choices made by developers to keep away non power users.

>The more I think about, the more I'm convinced that it's an unconscious choices made by developers to keep away non power users.

Honestly, I speak with many devs. It's a conscious choice. Gatekeeping in the Linux community is off the charts.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#118

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:49 AM UTC

EamonnMR wrote: post #38

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

Any reason not to watch commercial streaming services on Linux, or physical media?

I do, but there are shows and movies unavailable in my region.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#119

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 8:50 AM UTC

jenscow wrote: post #47

Gareth321 wrote: post #6

Fair comments but as someone who has tried many times to adopt Linux, I can honestly state that nothing in Windows comes close to the user-hostile UX approach in Linux. For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies. It connects to usenet and torrent clients, as well as indexers and movie databases. It makes maintaining a home movie collection seamless. Radarr is not in major package managers, a…

There's no technical limitation for Radarr to provide a package file that can be downloaded.

Indeed. Some developers just choose not to provide easy installation methods. This doesn't change the issue: a bad UX for me. It doesn't matter who is to blame.

Re: My transition from Windows to Linux in an anti-customer age

#120

Post by 3np » Mon, Mar 14, 2022, 9:19 AM UTC

Gareth321 wrote: post #110

pizza234 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, Radarr is an extremely popular tool for managing movies Radarr definitely doesn't represent the status of Linux projects packaging; not providing any package is uncommon. The vast majority of open source projects provide repositories, application packages, binaries (if one wants the latest-and-greatest version; the base repositories of the most common distros typically have almost anything under the su…

"The vast majority" of applications having packages doesn't satisfy my requirement: never ever, for any reason *ever*, having to use the CLI. The requirement is clear, unambiguous, and shared by the vast majority of PC users. For the record, at least in my case, it's certainly not the "vast majority" of applications. The following applications don't have easy to install packages. Even when there is, as in the case of…

Pray tell, what kind of cli configuration/intervention would be required for transmission?

You should just be able to install transmission-gtk and be off.